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A Bill Affirming the People's Power to Remove... (continued)
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Monday, 06 Feb 2012, 11:53 PM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| A Bill Affirming the People's Power to Remove Anti-Imperial Tyrants
The Empire shall have the authority to disbar and discharge from any and all positions of power or responsibility any planetary monarch who in word or deed has proven to be "anti-Imperial" or delinquent in the conduct of his or her duties (i.e. failure to enforce Imperial decrees or meet taxation quotas, etc.).
I vote in favor.
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| Avadrie_volFyr | Date: Tuesday, 07 Feb 2012, 9:37 AM | Message # 2 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 338
Status: Offline
| Empress Teta votes in favor of this proposal, but would also like to propose that it extend to any planetary leader who has proven un-Imperial in their words and actions.
Lady Avadrie volFyr
Senator of Empress Teta
Defense Committee Member
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| Avram_Kirkwood | Date: Thursday, 09 Feb 2012, 0:29 AM | Message # 3 |
 Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 77
Status: Offline
| I feel that the members of the Empire have the right to sovereignty and self-determination, and that includes their form of government and how their government is chosen. Against.
The Honorable Avram W. Kirkwood
Senator of the Cygnus Star Empire
General, Imperial Army (Ret.)
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| Augusta_Aurelius | Date: Thursday, 09 Feb 2012, 0:51 AM | Message # 4 |
 Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 109
Status: Offline
| Senator Veritas took a hardline stance on this issue earlier in the year, I join him in that cause, and I thank Senator Kirkwood for the support of our rights. Against.
Augusta Aurelius
Queen Conosrt of Deralia
Chair of the Human Rights Monitoring and Crisis Resolution Sub-Committee of the Planetary Defense Committee
Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (30 BBY - 18 BBY, 10 BBY - Present)
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Friday, 10 Feb 2012, 10:01 PM | Message # 5 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Senator Veritas took a selfish and small-minded stance on this issue, and I'm disappointed to see his successor do so too. The senator opposed a measure that prevented new monarchies from being created, because the senator's world, Deralia, already has a monarchy. Which wasn't relevant. Now, Deralia's senator is opposing a measure that would disbar delinquent monarchs because Deralia has a monarchy. Which, again, isn't relevant—unless the King of Deralia is a traitor to the Empire; there's no other reason for Deralia to oppose this proposal, since it doesn't punish monarchs who are dutiful to the Empire, only those who aren't. What are we to make, then, of Deralia's vote? What does it say about its King?
Senator Kirkwood, you're voting against a measure that doesn't exist. This has nothing to do with choosing a form of government. Literally nothing you said has any bearing on this proposal, and I ask you read it again and reconsider.
And Senator volFyr, I'll have to think on your idea. While I may support it as a separate measure, for the time being and for simplicity's sake I think I'd prefer to keep this particular proposal as is.
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| Roman_Lekpin | Date: Saturday, 11 Feb 2012, 2:17 PM | Message # 6 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 207
Status: Offline
| Unless a comprehensive list of what is anti-Imperial or not can be drawn up, or rough guidelines or something akin to such, or indeed, even a committee to decide such things, I cannot in good measure vote for this bill. Of course, I can understand Senator Cambrist's views on the matter and indeed, unfit monarchs should be removed from power. Until further clarification exists though, Lorrd abstains from this vote.
Roman Lekpin
Representative, Lorrd (11 BBY-10 BBY) (9 BBY-Present)
Chosen of House Garth
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| Avadrie_volFyr | Date: Saturday, 11 Feb 2012, 3:07 PM | Message # 7 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 338
Status: Offline
| There is an Ethics Committee within the Senate, Senator Lekpin.
I imagine under the auspices of this bill - one could submit evidence to the Ethics Committee, which would then decide whether or not the monarchs in question were anti-Imperial in their words and deeds, and then submit it to the Empire as whole for action.
Lady Avadrie volFyr
Senator of Empress Teta
Defense Committee Member
Message edited by Avadrie_volFyr - Saturday, 11 Feb 2012, 3:07 PM |
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Monday, 13 Feb 2012, 9:12 AM | Message # 8 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I agree with Senator volFyr. The Ethics Committee is one of many entities in the Empire that could determine this. There is also COMPNOR. And I'm sure with the advice of these entities the Ruling Council is capable of coming to an informed and fair decision on a case-by-case basis.
Added (13 Feb 2012, 9:12 AM)
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Before this measure is closed, I would humbly suggest to the chair that Senator Kirkwood's remarks are so irrelevant to the bill I proposed that they be considered false pretenses, and his vote be disqualified unless he clarifies his reasons (as I've invited him to do, but so far he hasn't). His Excellency the chair has told us in the past that mere platitudes are not an acceptable reason for a vote.
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Monday, 13 Feb 2012, 9:13 AM |
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| Avram_Kirkwood | Date: Monday, 13 Feb 2012, 6:41 PM | Message # 9 |
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Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 77
Status: Offline
| I feel that until the point of open rebellion, a world can and should be able to take care of any executive that becomes out of line, monarch or otherwise, and I feel this bill places undue and unwarranted pressure upon those using the monarchy style of government in the Empire, thus my vote remains Against this legislation.
The Honorable Avram W. Kirkwood
Senator of the Cygnus Star Empire
General, Imperial Army (Ret.)
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Tuesday, 14 Feb 2012, 5:57 AM | Message # 10 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| I am fully in support of this motion and vote in favour. Monarchies are a system which I feel in some ways give individuals greater power than any other system, thus monarchs must be safely constrained within rules and regulations. They must also be made to realize that they are not above the law.
I thus vote in favour.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Tuesday, 14 Feb 2012, 12:12 PM | Message # 11 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| I vote in favor as well. Druckenwell believes that a more democratic system is better off despite a monarch's abilities to rule. This is my world's personal view though.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Saturday, 18 Feb 2012, 10:39 AM | Message # 12 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 379
Status: Offline
| Garos IV votes against this measure.
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Slai-Fon | Date: Saturday, 18 Feb 2012, 10:49 AM | Message # 13 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 160
Status: Offline
| I'm always in favor of democracy, however I am also very supportive of planets being capable of running them selves. Senator Cambrist, I see your direction here but I am afraid I must vote against this measure.
Slai-Fon Youngblood, Senator of Anobis, and the Bright Jewel sector
Chairman of ISEC (Imperial Senate Ethic's Committee.)
Chairman & CEO of K/Y deep.
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Tuesday, 21 Feb 2012, 5:21 PM | Message # 14 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| The measure is tied at this time. The vote will remain open for the time being, so that another vote or votes will render it unnecessary for the chair to cast a tie-breaker.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Wednesday, 22 Feb 2012, 7:02 AM | Message # 15 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I'd be interested to know why it is that Senator Cerra opposes the removal of traitors from positions of power. As for "undue and unwarranted pressure upon... the monarchy form of government," as Senator Kirkwood has put it, this is a form of government that has undue and unwarranted power as it is, and it can be very difficult for a people to remove a monarch themselves—far more so than other forms of government. Typically, a monarch schedules elections (if any), has the power to suspend parliaments, senates, etc. and often commands the police and the army. Against this, the people have little recourse. It's one thing if an Imperial Governor has this power—it's another thing entirely for some anti-Imperial tyrant. And that's who this bill addresses, not monarchy in principle, but against delinquent monarchs.
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