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Emperor Palpatine, Grand Vizier Pestage, The Ruling Council
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| Gemmell | Date: Tuesday, 11 Dec 2012, 8:50 PM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant colonel
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| Gentlemen,
I'm in favour of Sector Governors having complete autonomy from the Senate and enacting what policies they think are appropriate for maintaining the peace, but I think they should show proper discretion and at least feign respect for the Imperial Senate and at least seem to be impartial.
Imperial Intelligence informs me that Moff Shirnoq has shown a continual bias toward the planet Lorrd (and especially one noble living there), this is not something I actually object to in principle - it may be that the interests of Lorrd and this specific noble are often the same and so favouring them equates to favouring the Empire.
But publicly offering to pay a blood price for one of his worlds? Proposing to use Imperial funding to pay off one petty group which is treading on another petty group?
Again, I don't question the right of a Moff to theoretically do so if it were in the interests of the Empire, but if they did so they should do it discretely. Moff Shirnoq effectively offered a bribe on the floor of the Senate.
Quote (Kanzad_Shirnoq) Frankly, the fact that I am considering offering you this... wergild... at all shows that I do my best to be kind to those who are not in my position, so that they might one day do kindness to others... As I was saying, if I grant any monies to you, it will be because I choose to do so and not because you try to extort some ridiculous sum of money from a world that you see as doing you a slight.
He then went on to effectively guarantee Lorrd against the Auril forces and threatened them with military force. I had the holofeeds from the Senate dropped so the liberal Core media couldn't have a field day. Imperial Sector forces acting as the military of one world in a conflict between two worlds is something which should only be done in cases where it's clearly in the interests of the Empire.
Quote (Kanzad_Shirnoq) my vessels will remain where they are until I deem fit, not because you appear with some drivel and expect me to let you conduct a war against a planet that has not been an aggressor in any action that I can think of offhand. So if you will have your revenge, you will have it while staring down the weapons of my flagship. Is that clear enough for you, Commodore?
Flaunting the fact on the floor of the Senate invites criticism and allegations of Imperial favouritism, cronyism and all the worst traits that dissenters often apply to our Governors. Moff Shirnoq is clearly vastly too invested in the affairs of this one world (all fine if he kept such investment out of the limelight) and has let it compromise his responsibility to the Empire to be discrete about such things.
I'd like to propose the Emperor respectfully consider formally chiding Moff Shirnoq, relieving him of his post, or transferring him to another Sector Governorate in which he might be more likely to avoid publicly showing the Empire up. If we don't take action against Moff Shirnoq for taking these actions so publicly, and issuing these threats and offers on behalf of one of his worlds then the Ruling Council will be seen as weak by the mob, unable to call Governors to account when they clearly breach protocol so publicly (again I hasten to add it is not the breach of protocol that is the problem rather it's announcement in such a public venue).
If I were to submit the precise proposal, I'd like to suggest Moff Shirnoq be given a private reproof from the Ruling Council, then for him to make a statement that his comments were misinterpreted and that he didn't actually intend to intervene in planetary intercourse before taking a short period of medical leave to remove him from the public eye so that this difficulty between these two groups can be resolved one way or another without him making statements that could bring shame to the Empire generally.
Furthermore, I think it would be useful for the Ruling Council to issue a statement of position that re-affirms its support for worlds current legal rights regarding conflict, but that the Empire may intervene in exceptional circumstances or to protect Imperial interests.
The precedent created by this blunt action threatens the peace of the Empire in my belief, it will increase dissent.
Exceptional circumstances are easily raised out of air if a Governor needs them - it's suitably vague I feel but shows that we are at least paying notional support and recognition to the laws of the Imperial Senate.
Lord Gregorious Gemmell
Advisor to the Emperor
Imperial Ruling Council
Message edited by Gemmell - Tuesday, 11 Dec 2012, 9:37 PM |
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Tuesday, 11 Dec 2012, 11:17 PM | Message # 2 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| Vizier Gemmell,
If the sensibilities of the Senate were of such concern to us, Moff Winder would have been admonished for his far more disrespectful and incendiary comments to the Senate, or Moff Cole for his disregard of parliamentary procedure. Furthermore, far from appearing "weak" before the Senate, it has been my approach as Grand Vizier to emphasize the power of the Empire through its Moffs—unwavering support for the right of Moffs to govern their sectors as they see fit is a sign of strength, Gregorious. I see no need to admonish Moff Shirnoq in public for acting in what he perceives to be the best interest of his sector, nor do I find his remarks to be inappropriate; the Tionese are proving to be a persistent problem for the Empire and it pleases me to see a Moff be intolerant of their frivolous advances into his sector. How many of His Majesty's subjects does this self-styled Commodore Cynum intend to kill to avenge a handful of deaths that this Council ordered, all in the name of his Tionese "traditions"?
Is Moff Shirnoq's credibility compromised by his uncannily close relationship with Mr. Stark and his Lorrdian compatriots? Yes, this is oft spoken of in the Imperial court. And I agree that Moff Shirnoq's offer to pay this arcane "wergild" that's demanded of Lorrd is improper. But this makes nothing that I've written above any less the case. A private reproach and leave of absence may be in order for Moff Shirnoq, but far from being the best time to do so, this is the worst time; I will not signal to the people of the galaxy that the Empire is inconstant in its support of its Moffs, especially when Moff Shirnoq is arguably being no more indulgent of Lorrd than Moff Winder is of Auril in defending this ethnic Tionese practice of "wergild." Moff Shirnoq, at least, has stated that he would defend any of his worlds as he has defended Lorrd in this circumstance. To me, his handling of this incident has been adequate.
However, his reputation for being too favorably-disposed to Lorrd cannot be denied; thus, for the maintenance of his credibility I shall press him to time-limit the commitment of his forces to Lorrd—Commodore Cynum, as I understand it, has already agreed to a 1-week cessation of hostilities. I would like it to be made equally clear to Moff Winder, however, that the Empire has little patience indeed for these ethnic Tionese "traditions" and that the maintenance of his credibility demands he cease speaking in defense of them. It would be in the greater interest of the Empire if he was more forceful in restraining Commodore Cynum.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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| Dorian_Covell | Date: Tuesday, 11 Dec 2012, 11:33 PM | Message # 3 |
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| Vizier Gemmell,
I deal with the Senate daily, and their members... they all come to me when they need aid from the Empire and are not deemed important enough for the Grand Vizier. I could instruct college courses on feigning respect at this point. As the Grand Vizier points out, Moff Shirnoq has stood above other Moffs that have become entangled with the Senate; and while I do not dispute the information you claim in question, in regards to Moff Shirnoq, I would like to see the Intelligence report on this matter.
It is technically the job of the Moffs to determine the Imperial interest within their sector... that is why they exist. We can not be seen to be disruptive to those we appoint to govern in their governance. I speak, of course, in generality, not on the specific subject, which I am regretfully uninformed at the moment in. Then again, it is the Senate and our government that is my specialty, inter-planetary relations are yours. I will however, cease t speak on this subject, as the Grand Vizier has covered it adequately. Should we not, however, discuss this disturbing trend of the Moffs lowering themselves to the level of attempting to become Senators?
Gregorious, while I respect you as a colleague, I must point out, that one must not jump to media blackout when controversial public events transpire. Such events can always be of use in the future, and such actions, I've found, only draw further attention to the issue. Rather than the media talking about the issue at hand, they will be speculating upon what the exact issue is and why we deemed it unsuitable for their knowledge. I ask you, which is a more troubling or potentially problematic scenario?
Dorian Covell
Vizier of Government Affairs
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| Gemmell | Date: Wednesday, 12 Dec 2012, 1:20 AM | Message # 4 |
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Lieutenant colonel
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| The severing of media channels temporarily was by the built in subsystem that allows us to covertly disrupt holo traffic.
My decision was predicated upon the fact that the Liberal Media will and are on this matter, as well as normally Imperially aligned media agencies on multiple worlds. I've had Sector Moffs express their consternation also (as it has hitherto been Imperial protocol to be moderate and they were unaware it was now permissible to openly and brazenly use force to the public), some critical for risking the perceived impartiality of the Empire.
Again I do not dispute the legality of the Moffs actions, but they run contrary to the standing policies of almost every Moff I have spoken to; it is bad form and not conducive to the peace of the Empire for Imperial Moffs to disrupt planets making war.
You say that you deal with Senators every day but so far as I am aware you have little direct input to spinning the wider message of the Empire and quieting the Member worlds and pruning dissent. You must begin to see the bigger picture here, and why actions like this are demonstrably counterproductive to the cause of the Empire, I'm attaching a dossier explaining why this is the case.
I don't question the right of the Moff to issue such edicts, but as a guest on the Senate floor it is not parliamentary to do so, nor is it politic to allow such statements, and to bicker on behalf of a world he clearly supports.
Dossier on the probable fallout from the Moff's statement if action is not taken
Demonstrable potential damage being done to the Office of Moff in general.
The Office of Imperial Moff is one of Governorship and Command. It is an office vested with dignity and weighted with extreme responsibility. It matters little if they are not in fact aloof, or favour one faction so long as it is not done in an egregious manner. To storm into the Imperial Senate and bicker with a planetary ruler is unbecoming of his rank.
What is further unbecoming is that he actively lobbied and proclaimed his economic and military support for Lorrd in a conflict with another world within the chamber of the Imperial Senate.
While he could be forgiven for his favouritism to Lorrd (perhaps he likes the place) he must be chastised for being openly and brazenly partisan in the Chamber of the Senate.
Worrying question of Imperial policy and applicability of edicts
As our friend Vizier Covell points out, a Moff does determine the Imperial Interest and policy in his sector - that is why he should remain aloof.
The Moff proclaimed he'd be placing his warships to prevent a conflict with Lorrd. In doing so he effectively declares a state of hostility between the Auril Sector and his Moffdom - does this hostility extend beyond his Sector? Are Imperial Navy forces everywhere obliged to implement his policy (as from what I gather, this promises to be a war conducted across the galaxy utilizing privateers). These are fairly nebulous questions but it will take time and effort to collate and circulate an official policy on the wider applicability of a Sector Moff's military involvement in a local tussle.
Most importantly, if he involves his Imperial Sector Military in a local fight it precludes any fair engagement taking place. The Sector Forces are Imperial, and so firing on them is against the law, so it effectively precludes worlds from waging war against eachother which (within regulations) is a right under Imperial Law.
The fact is, Moffs are seen as speaking for the Empire as a whole and a Moff doing this is beyond the pale.
Possibility for causing reduced Morale in the Armed Forces.
My naval contacts tell me there is little enthusiasm among the common soldiery and many officers to be placed permanently on station to do the job of local militias or fight their wars.
Those who serve in uniform deserve to serve the Emperor and his duly appointed representatives, under the instructions of Moff Shirnoq the Emperor's forces have been deployed as Lorrdian traffic control!
Demonstrable risk of harm to the reputation of the Imperial Central Government.
The Moffs, as representatives of the Imperial Government ought to remain aloof (as the Imperial Government does) from trifling matters or it is implied that the Empire generally takes the view of the Moff and sides with him unconditionally, irrespective of whether he is obeying the law. Every decision by a Moff is tied together in the minds of citizens with the Imperial Policy in general, and they must represent that policy rather than sectional interests or risk causing dissent by making the Empire appear to be allied to one group or another in a minor conflict.
Direct fallout from the statements made and Moff Shirnoq's general involvement in the Lorrdian situation.
The Coreward dissenting Media is already running stories comparing Moff Shirnoq with the formerly re-assigned Moff Verilia; the Alsakan media was already heavily critical following the deployment of fighters to prevent their ships delivering humanitarian aid at the orders of the Imperial Captain present, this has perpetuated it for another news cycle.
The usually extremely loyal presses across the worlds closest to Imperial Center are running stories with headlines such as "Moff issues threats in senate" and "His Excellency, Kanzad Shirnoq, King of Lorrd", I won't go on but you get the gist.
The Tionese press is repeating a lot of the coreward outrage - as you'll know the Tionese were loyal in the Clone Wars and still are extremely loyal (despite some strange customs which cause little harm).
The Raioballo Sector press is questioning it's Moff as to why it did not prevent the Deralian incursion.
The Tammuz Sector press is questioning it's Moff as to why its Moff did not prevent the blockade of Deralia.
Various journals are raising examples of other cases where the Empire has stood by and are alleging cronyism.
I won't go on further, but as you can see, this is the problem when a Moff is not an aloof figure who stands back and governs with an air of impartiality, everyone loses that sense of respect which comes from the separation from local affairs and see fit to loudly lobby and trumpet at sector Moffs to do things in the interests of their world too.
Once shed, it is difficult to retain an aloof sense of dignity, although rest assured my Public-Media Relations teams are working their damnedest to minimize the statements made, play down the widespread applicability of the principle and reinforce the prestige and honour of the Office of Moff
Specific analysis of this situation rather than general principles
Note: I am disappointed the Council is even having to waste its time on such a pissant disagreement.
Lorrd is a fairly sparsely populated desert and ice world - it's value to the Empire is negligible in comparison with the rest of the Sector, it is a small and relatively insignificant world which has a history of constant conflict with a nearby world (Argazda - some green skinned "near humans"). It's mostly wasteland but with some academic institutions and manufacturing happening there.
The Auril Sector Irregular forces come from a selection of worlds in the Auril Sector, mostly Tionese in extraction who are seeking compensation for the loss of some joint citizens killed during the ongoing Kanz Purges. They've said they support the purges in principle but wish to see their people deported back to their home region for re-education. They are broadly civilized and core-leaning in their traditions, they do have a concept of blood feud (essentially the ancient legal principle of "an eye for an eye" with the mollifying addition of a concept of wergild, where the family of the killed may accept compensation in lieu of the capital punishment being enacted on those who drew their blood.
Lorrd was struck by a surprise attack concurrent with a declaration of war from the Honourable Union of the Worlds of the Auril Sector. The Auril Sector forces won a tactical and strategic victory by using cheap old corvettes as fireships to destroy a station many times their value.
The Auril folk are currently in negotiations with some of the Lorrdian Lords to seek their discontinuation of support for the war. I'm informed they intend to demand a blood price of the value extending to cover their costs for campaigning to recover the blood price and their honour. Frankly, I'm cynical if they give a bugger about their honour - it's likely Lorrdian credits they're after but they do have legal cause for war that I am told would stand up in a court room.
They'd been making conciliatory noises to the Lorrdians (agreeing to ceasefires, promising hostility only as a last resort if negotiations failed etc), and at the request of the Sector Moff made all the guarantees he demanded and assured him that any conflict would abide by all laws relevant and protect Lorrdian infrastructure and cultural monuments/buildings.
This is a clear case of one world coercing another into a settlement through force - but that is the way of the Galaxy. The strong survive, the weak suffer. I don't think it's advisable to try and turn back the tide - there have been a half dozen similar incidents in the last year or so where a coalition of worlds has contested with another world on flimsy grounds and the Empire has wisely stayed clear.
I admit, there's a moral case for helping Lorrd, it seems to have done little to deserve it's fate, but I think it is apparent that greater damage is done to the Empire and it's reputation by allowing this to set a precedent for long term involvement by Sector Governors in inter-planetary matters except in truly exceptional circumstances.
Let the bantam cocks fight between themselves if they so wish, but it does not do to go down to their level and involve yourself.
Also, it's worth mentioning the Deployment of Star Destroyers indefinitely would actually cost considerably more than Lorrd has ever paid in taxation and deprive the Sector in general of those ships on patrol. If the Auril forces kept to their pledge and did avoid targeting industry or infrastructure if they go ahead with an operation (and the Moff stepped aside) the loss in tax revenues is furthermore lower than the cost of deploying the Imperial Starfleet as sentinels for any length of time. I have guarantees from Commodore Cynum any campaign would be short, targeted and efficient and would withdraw once it's goals were achieved.
It is my dispassionate view - I really don't care about the situation further than I have to for the good of the Empire, I believe the Empire should keep it's nose out of this hornets nest for now. If the Auril forces break the law then by all means descend on them and get them band to rights, but while they remain within the law I honestly think it's best to avoid a high profile court case, which Cynum informs me will be his next course of action if he's unable to reason with the Moff.
(OOC regarding the blackout: As stated it was a covert button that caused what appeared to be a technical fault in the relay system not a simple severing of the link when pressed - thus the Media would just know that there had been a short break in coverage which would be explained as a technical fault.)
Lord Gregorious Gemmell
Advisor to the Emperor
Imperial Ruling Council
Message edited by Gemmell - Wednesday, 12 Dec 2012, 2:52 AM |
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Thursday, 13 Dec 2012, 2:16 PM | Message # 5 |
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Lieutenant general
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| Vizier Gemmell,
Any Moff so contemptibly craven as to express "consternation" at the Council's insistence that they use the forces they've been given to defend their sectors to, in fact, defend their sectors can and perhaps should be replaced. No Moff should be so abjectly servile to the whims of their worlds as to cover their eyes and ears while destruction is wrought on His Majesty's planets and property. It is Moffs of this sort who are projecting an image of weakness and servility. They are a disgrace to the uniform, relics of the Old Republic, and I expect you'll make it known to them that Vizier Gemmell's shoulder is not theirs to cry upon.
I, for one, am pleased to see a Moff put an impudent planetary ruler in his place. The Ruling Council should stand firmly in support of Moff Shirnoq's statement to strengthen the position of Moff in the eyes of the people and quell such casual insolence as Mr. Cynum was directing at the Moff of the Kanz Sector. Not even once did he refer to Moff Shirnoq as "Your Excellency."
You have a queer view of this, Vizier Gemmell. The Aurilites under Mr. Cynum perpetrate a "sneak attack" on one of Moff Shirnoq's worlds, and in defending this world, it is Moff Shirnoq who is being hostile to the Aurilites? I do not see how you can "not dispute the legality of the Moffs actions," yet blame him for doing what a Moff is within his right to do and, additionally, refer to it as a "sign of weakness"! The New Order on which this Empire was founded is predicated on the promise of peace; there is no clamor for war as you seem to imagine it, Vizier. Gone are the days of the Old Republic when Coruscant sat, arms folded, indifferent to inter-planetary wars; there is only so much damage to His Majesty's worlds that this Council will abide in the name of "fair engagements." And when a war does occur there must at least be good cause for it.
As far as the people's perception of Moffs is concerned, and Moffs appearing to be "allied to one group or another in a minor conflict," the people have every right to expect their Moff to protect them, be it from rebels or from other worlds, for what more basic foundation for the credibility of a Moff is there in the eyes of the people? Need a Moff concern himself in every inter-planetary war? No, of course not; a planetary government is (usually) an instrument of its people, and when that government has acted in such a manner as to bring war upon itself, it is as much the people's doing as it is the government's and a Moff needn't interest himself in that war. But when a "sneak attack" is perpetrated on a planet so unsuspecting as Lorrd, and on so thin a pretense, a Moff is within his right to defend that planet. To do any less would be to communicate to the most law-abiding of His Majesty's worlds that "you don't matter to the Empire." Yet, you insist he'd be respected more for leaving his people to die?
I confess that Lorrd doesn't matter much to me, nor should it as much as it does to Moff Shirnoq. But this Council will not waver in its support for the powers and prerogatives of the Office of Sector Governor. I am troubled that you've gone to such lengths as you have to find arguments in support of a conclusion you've clearly come to in advance, Vizier Gemmell. So much so that you've plumbed the depths of subversive media to find shreds of criticism of Moff Shirnoq. The respected and well-read publications I've seen are indignant at "yet another ethnic Tionese crusade." One cartoon I chanced upon in Corulag media portrayed Mr. Cynum, a "mad brute," as an out-sized primate clawing his way across the stars, drooling in lust for Lorrdian virgins. A editorial from Humbarine praised Moff Shirnoq for standing as a bulwark against "Tionism" on its Coreward march. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that COMPNOR is preparing a statement condemning the Aurilites, as it did the Embarilites.
I do share your disappointment, however, that this is even a topic of debate before this Council. Moff Shirnoq's handling of this situation having been adequate and inoffensive to all but the Aurilites and a select few publications known for their criticism of the Empire, I'd prefer it if we could let events run their course and move on to other matters. Especially now that I've extracted an assurance from Moff Shirnoq that the commitment of his forces to Lorrd shall be temporary. However I do ask you, Vizier Gemmell, to take some time to re-examine your view of this situation so that your indignation is not misplaced in the future, as it is here.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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| Gemmell | Date: Thursday, 13 Dec 2012, 4:18 PM | Message # 6 |
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Lieutenant colonel
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| I believe you're misinterpreting the General thrust of the statement I made and would urge you to reconsider your reading of it - my objections are primarily to the manner in which Moff Shirnoq conducted his actions (showing little discretion or finesse, and bickering in the Senate, openly speaking for Lorrd etc).
The theoretical damage to the Empire that is risked is that we are then yoked to Moff Shirnoq's agenda - Moff Shirnoq's agenda is the Agenda of Alyn Stark (again, fine if kept low key, but the stomach turns at the thought of popular perception being that the Galactic Empire is following the Agenda of one meglomaniacal Lorrdian. I wouldn't wish to see the Empire become the servant of it's Moffs instead of the Moffs servants of the Empire. This is not what I am saying -has- happened, I am saying that it is a possible undesirable outcome.
I don't think Cynum is a "nice man", (in all probability) - he's just as self interested as Alyn Stark or any other Outer Rim despot - he's also not anti-Imperial and his worlds are just as dependable in their tax returns as Lorrd. I think he's likely an opportunistic militarist who is spoiling for a fight and found a legal loophole which makes it fit within the letter of the law to conduct his war. Yes, they are rascals, but does it serve the interest of the Empire to oppose planetary darwinism on such a minor scale?
I can list many planetary conflicts in the last year where Moffs opted for the path of discretion, sometimes there has been a good deal more legitimate grounds for intervention and sometimes not. Furthermore, Moff Winder has indicated that whatever profit is taken by Cynum will be taxed.
The notion of the Tionese "marching on the Core" is quite an amusing one. It's quite a nice historical reference don't you think? Since they originally came from the Core. At any rate, the notion any Core world is threatened by the Tionese (our allies in the Clone Wars, as you'll recall) - even the less militaristic Core PDFs are superior to these rapscallions.
Shirnoq seems to be inclined to moderate his position and Cynum has done the same. It all seems as if this may be diffused. I do believe that these forthcoming negotiations have great potential to diffuse this potential irritation.
Lord Gregorious Gemmell
Advisor to the Emperor
Imperial Ruling Council
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