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The "Fair Share" Provision
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Saturday, 17 Oct 2009, 3:10 PM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Senators, I propose a simple measure that is long overdue. I hope we can all agree, to whatever varying degrees we might support the Jedi, that the government should not be involved with them (or meddlesome, if you prefer the word) any more than is necessary. I submit to you all, that the Republic has been most kind to the Jedi thus far; we have allowed them the use of our base on Yavin IV and dozens of our surplus starfighters and transports, not to mention the numerous occasions on which our fleet has been obliged to protect the Jedi Academy at the cost of our crews' and soldiers' blood. I believe it is only reasonable that the Jedi Order, in return, be obliged to pay rent and utilities (water, electricity, and so on) for the Academy grounds which, after all, the New Republic still owns. Bear in mind, Senators, we do not ask them to pay tax, to register their weapons (or agree to the nonproliferation thereof), or even to submit themselves to Republic justice when crimes are committed. This is, truly, the least we can ask of them. I vote in favor. Senator Sir Reuke Cambrist, Brentaal
Chairman of the Commerce Council
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| Jamie_the_Hutt | Date: Saturday, 17 Oct 2009, 3:12 PM | Message # 2 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 392
Status: Offline
| Reuke my good man, this seems abundantly sensible, the Jedi provided additional services in the Old Republic and they should now, they should not be allowed to be ivory tower intellectuals but should use their powers to help us all. Thus I vote in Favour.
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| Artemis_Vanden | Date: Saturday, 17 Oct 2009, 4:24 PM | Message # 3 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 302
Status: Offline
| I'm told that the Senator from Brentaal has a history of these sorts of bills, but I will only say that I feel this specific one is, unsurprisingly, rather unjust to the Jedi who are—I remind us all—our friends, not our enemies. The Jedi Academy is not a profit making institution, and I don't imagine they have much disposable income to spend on things like rent, and utilities. It's also, I think, unkind to require this of them considering the role they play as defenders of the peace, and as diplomats. The Jedi give back to us in many ways, just not necessarily the financial one that Senator Cambrist proposes. I vote against.
Artemis Vanden
Representative of the Naboo
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| Ponc_Gavrisom | Date: Saturday, 17 Oct 2009, 4:38 PM | Message # 4 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 271
Status: Offline
| Senators, I think this is an idea that is perhaps a little rash. A little hasty. I believe a cost-benefit analysis should be done on this matter to examine the two possible systems, the one now and the Honourable Senator Cambrist's proposed plan. I propose Senator Forte and Senator Cambrist joint-head this Commission which will seek to evaluate both plans and present a report once they have run their analysis and come to a logical conclusion. So for the time being, until the full facts are known this matter should be considered tabled, but I encourage dialogue on the matter.
Ponc Gavrisom
Chief of State
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Saturday, 17 Oct 2009, 6:16 PM | Message # 5 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I do not consent to table the measure. I will agree to the various studies that the Chief of State suggests (although I would point out that the Economics Council under Senator Kruus would be the more appropriate committee), but with all due respect to him I do not see the need for the voting to be delayed in the meantime. Assessing the cost of utilities and rent will, after all, be a simple task that will not take much time. Indeed, the measure is less about the specific costs and more about the Jedi actually being as independent and accountable as they like to claim that they are. With respect to Senator Vanden's words, that the Jedi are "our friends, not our enemies"; of course this is true, but I would point out that with friends such as these, we don't need enemies. As for the Jedi not having a disposable income, I ask, why shouldn't they? The Jedi have the power to make crops grow, and to heal the sick and wounded. Why are they not involved in agriculture, to feed the hungry? Why are they not involved in medicine, to care for the sick? They could do these things for a modest fee, or even for free, but they do neither. In leiu of this, all I ask, Senators, is that the Jedi pull their weight and pay their fair share. Senator Sir Reuke Cambrist, Brentaal
Chairman of the Commerce Council
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| Cul-utaanForte | Date: Saturday, 17 Oct 2009, 10:25 PM | Message # 6 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 150
Status: Offline
| I believe during the debate over recognition of the Smuggler's Alliance of a decade ago, the common arguement in favor of such a move was "We shouldn't turn on our allies". Of course this is summarized and para-phrased, but the point remains...and the record will show this. Should not the same principle be applied here? The Jedi, even when in the smallest of numbers, have always helped the New Republic. And as we have worked to rebuild, so have they, both in helping us rebuild, and rebuilding themselves. To answer the question why they do not conduct activities they were more notable for fourty years ago...I believe they are still rebuilding from the very atrocity those that sat in this chamber fourty years ago allowed to happen. A member of the esteemed Order can correct me if I am wrong on that point. Needless to say, I vote against this measure.
General Cul'utaan'forte
Forte's Legion
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| OrionKarath | Date: Saturday, 17 Oct 2009, 11:26 PM | Message # 7 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 612
Status: Offline
| Citing Senator Vanden, and more so Senator Forte, I vote against this legislation. I fought alongside Jedi, and I have befriend a few of our guardians of peace and justice...and I can say that they do not deserve some of the words some of the more ungracious members of this body have spoken against them.
Orion Karath
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
My posts here, pre-2009 archives here
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Sunday, 18 Oct 2009, 1:12 AM | Message # 8 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Senators, my personal opinions of the Jedi are well known, so I will not mention them again and have not done so at length in this discussion. Suffice to say, Senator Forte, you say that we should not "turn on our allies," and I say to you that I agree! However, is it so "ungracious" to expect an ally, even a friend, to pay rent and utilities on a property that is leased to them? I submit to you, gentlemen, that it is far more ungracious to use this property without expecting to pay even such a trifle as this. Regardless of your opinions of the Jedi, surely we must be aware of the sense of "Jedi exceptionalism" that is pervasive in this chamber, and has been pervasive throughout the New Republic's history (in which it has been very accomodating to them). We allow the Jedi exceptions on the rule of law, exceptions on taxes, exceptions on imports, exceptions on the use of our soldiers, and the use of our fleet. Senators, open your eyes! Do those of you who vote against this measure really mean to except the Jedi even from rent? I ask you to ask yourselves, where will the line be drawn? Exceptions on traffic laws, perhaps? Exceptions on having to wait in queues at the grocery store? I am perfectly willing to concede that the Jedi are exceptional beings, but I do not see the need to make them more so! If anything, their Force powers are an advantage to them; why are we, thus, allowing them so many more advantages that they, themselves, claim not to seek and that we ordinary citizens do not have? This is precisely the reason that hatred of the Jedi was so common in the Old Republic and, increasingly, in the New. Senator Sir Reuke Cambrist, Brentaal
Chairman of the Commerce Council
Message edited by Reuke_Cambrist - Sunday, 18 Oct 2009, 1:14 AM |
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| Simon_Levi | Date: Sunday, 18 Oct 2009, 9:22 AM | Message # 9 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 395
Status: Offline
| Mr Cambrist does have a valid point. Currently, despite allegations made, they do not negotiate on behalf of the New Republic, they serve no purpose other than sitting in their ivory tower looking out and daining to help the people. Only occasionally venturing out to capture errant apprentices or kill other individuals. This will not do. In the old Republic they provided agricultural services, thus they must do the same now.
Moff of the Tammuz Sector
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| Ponc_Gavrisom | Date: Wednesday, 21 Oct 2009, 11:31 AM | Message # 10 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 271
Status: Offline
| Having considered this, there are 3 votes in favour (Kruus, Cambrist, Jamie the Hutt) and 3 against (Forte, Vanden, Karath). Having reviewed the matter, I believe, in principle, that the Jedi should be obliged to 'earn their keep' as we all must. And I believe that the heads of the Economics and Commerce Committees, support this motion, and thus does the majority of the Administration. As such I break the tie with a vote in favour of the motion, pending a costing analysis by the Economics Committee. The motion passes. Four votes in favour, three against.
Ponc Gavrisom
Chief of State
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