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Complaint.
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| Ars_Dangor | Date: Tuesday, 22 Jan 2013, 10:41 PM | Message # 1 |
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| This thread. The Empire dismissed the government of Telos IV and replaced it with Imperial appointees. Nonetheless, I wouldn't have complained about Aleksandr Kelly as the Defense Minister of Telos IV (which, technically, should be an Imperial-appointed position that we have some say over—but that's not what this is about) if the title hadn't been immediately used to shamelessly promote his other characters' ship designs. Like I said, I didn't intend to say anything originally, and I don't mean to be rude, but this is really over the top. I was open to this earlier, but now frankly I have no confidence that this role is going to be played with OOC impartiality. I'm not saying it's malicious—obviously, everyone thinks their own ship designs are the best. But if that's the case, I don't think you should take on a role like this if you're in this position where you can't be impartial nor expected to be.
Vizier Ars Dangor
Adviser to the Emperor
Spokesman for the Imperial Ruling Council
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| Jaron | Date: Tuesday, 22 Jan 2013, 10:47 PM | Message # 2 |
 Major general
Group: Administrators
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| Thank you, Ars, for airing your disagreement with the situation in a short, clear and concise manner which did not insult the other party nor resort to any childish antics as some have been prone to in the past. You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. With that nicety said, I do happen to agree, as do the other managers I believe, that this kind of action is in thorough and vehement violation of Rule 1.2, and I can say that after being in a somewhat unexpected and unplanned "sabbatical", as it were, will be dedicated to stamping out such behavior in the RP.
Jaron Park
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
(pre-April 2012 posts) (post-April 2012 posts)
Pre-2009 Archives
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| Alexia_Romanov | Date: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 4:21 AM | Message # 3 |
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| I have a complaint too, but why don't you talk to me in messenger; Jaron, John, or preferably Jace, and we will discuss it instead if airing it all up here. Maybe that's not gentlemanly, or scholarly, but it is polite at least.
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| Schmuel_Kadram | Date: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 5:04 AM | Message # 4 |
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| On a point of information, there's just been this massive war a few years ago called "The Clone Wars"! Well, as it turns out there are a fair few pretty common ships from back then which are largely being phased out. Such as the Pelta-class, the Arquitens-class or Acclamator-class as large ships go. There are even pre-Clone Wars ones like the armed Consular-class, IPV-1 Patrol Ship, the PB-950 Patrol boat and Dreadnaught-class Heavy Cruiser.
All of these the Empire has lots of sitting around due to modernization, mothballing and damage which renders a ship not worth repairing to the Empire ("written off") when new ships are available. This would profit the Empire not the original shipyard, and I can't see why the Empire would do anything but force Telos to do things in its interest. Furthermore, it's lucky to even have a fleet - Chandrila got it's (and rights to own one) confiscated when it's Senator peacefully rebelled - Tremaine is an armed rebel, one would think (if anything) they'd be more severely chastised.
But thanks for the nod on the RHE ship!
Schmuel Kadram
Governor of Rothana
Junior Vice President of Operations KDY
Message edited by Schmuel_Kadram - Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 5:07 AM |
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| Aleksandr_Kelly | Date: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 5:08 AM | Message # 5 |
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| If I may, gentlemen, since we are all being gentlemen and scholars, I assume. True, the government of Telos IV was replaced. I assume that as an elected senator, Alexia would have the freedom to name a few positions.
Now, without meaning any slight to Jess, she may not be the most ship savvy. As such, I took an opportunity to help her out when asked. Now, is a recommendation to purchase from Sluis Van, Lorrd and Rothana a violation of 1.2? I don't necessarily think so. There are three active ship builders in this roleplay: myself, Jamie and Carl. Carl builds only for himself really so that leaves Jamie and I. The way I see it, purchasing from three different companies increases the player contact rather than simply ordering from an NPC. We all play a large mix of characters, so at times 1.2 gets blurred. If the objections are truly that great, I shall withdraw and sell to NPC worlds instead.
[b]Aleksandr Kelly[/b]
Defense Minister of Telos IV
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| Schmuel_Kadram | Date: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 5:55 AM | Message # 6 |
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Lieutenant
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| Is worth noting though.. say you want a car.
You live in, for the sake of argument, Springfield, Illinois. You're an average middle class guy, doing a relatively average job.
Say you want a car, you'd go to the yellow pages and look up car dealerships. S & K Buick GMC, Green Hyundai, Landmark Ford Inc, Friendly Chevrolet, Honda of Illinois, Green Nissan are all there. They're all very big brands. Sure you'll get some dealerships which specialize in imports of premium cars, things like BMW, Audi etc but on average you go with things that are of moderate value and do the job you need them to.
Your average industrialised Outer Rim World is in this niche. You go for a standard off-the-peg ship that is from a familiar brand you know you can trust. Very few American midwestern middle class people buy themselves a Ferrari, Audi or Porsche, when people do buy them they are something you notice, an exception to the rule and more expensive than a standard brand - and ultimately aren't awfully useful for say, towing things around the farm or a car that you give your kid as a first car.
Also high quality technology is the majority of the time more fragile and have high costs to maintain. People don't usually go for the flashy foreign premium brand, and when they do only the super rich go for the Ferrari, Bugatti or Aston Martin end of the spectrum. There's one ferrari in the US (assuming none were written off) per 8331 people - I think the same should be said for Super-Premium (i.e. considerably better than the average of ships of the time) ships in the RP - expensive and rare.
Now I am not saying Sluis Van is a "supercar" brand equivalent, it's probably much more like Volvo (slow to build but reliable and well built ships - incidentally nothing in the canon indicates their technology is in advance of Imperial Standard). The KDY group is your GMC (except less broke) equivalent. Lorrd Engineering is your Lada, Delorean or Rover in terms of US perception - not really known about, when it is not in your top 10 choices when you want a car.. not necessarily thought of badly, just not really thought of or ever seen much - seemingly with aspirations on being Aston Martin but not realizing that you cant be Ford (Turnover £85 Billion to profit £12.37 Billion) and Aston Martin (Turnover £474 Million to profit £76 Million) at the same time - different economies of scale and quality.
After all that talk of cars I want me a 1910 Waverley Coupe.
The Imperial Navy Surplus Dept or the Corporate Sector Authority (doesn't someone play them?) would be the first port of call for surplus ships of any size.
Schmuel Kadram
Governor of Rothana
Junior Vice President of Operations KDY
Message edited by Schmuel_Kadram - Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 12:40 PM |
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| General_Eel | Date: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 6:28 AM | Message # 7 |
 Major
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| So as my Pappy did say.
Y'all don't buy a Thoroughbred to do the job of a Mule,
Y'all don't buy a Podracer to do the job of a Cargo Skiff,
Y'all don't go to the outhouse without a Blaster after dark and jus' 'cos y'all are inside don't be thinkin' y'are safe, check under the lid incase there don be a carni-verrus snail which gonna slide up and bite yure behind. Doc Danson told me about a farmer down Garang way once who went down to the outhouse without tekkin' he blaster a'cos his wife only gone done take it down the basement to shoots her the Quenker which gone made it's home there; anyway so he was a fella who imbibed (a little too much Doc Danson said, let five hundred acres of prime Yot Bean land lie fallow for four seasons, ever heard the lika that?), and made it past the Voritor lizard on the grass outside thanks to it rattlin' all the KeyStone cans he had scattered thereabouts 'n' givin' him a heads up. Anyway, he made it to the outhouse (an old Confederate tank the Doc said), that a laser burst had burned straight through, (he just done fitted a toilet seat on the pilots chair and put a pipe into the hole in the ground, overflows come rainy season but what don't eh?) and closed up the blast door, (he was mighty pleased with heself 'cos he always kept a spare E-5 blaster rifle out there in case his other one done runs outta gas) and sat down on the head and only gone and got the mightiest surprise when a Carni-verrus snail done latched on to his post-ear-or and ain't nothing gonna make a snail go once it gone bitten into somethin. Poor guy went and clean blew off his buttock, ain't much Danson could do when his wife brought him in sept stop the bleedin' with pitch 'n' send him to Abraham the Carpenter to make him a wooden ass-cheek. Y'all ever hear the like?
General Trebor Eel
______________________
Commanding General of the Khoonda Militia
Major General Retired
Ex-Quartermaster-General 187th Clone Legion
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| Jamie_the_Hutt | Date: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 7:08 AM | Message # 8 |
 Major general
Group: Users
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| Y'all talkin' about ole Silas "Wood-Ass" Lane? Boy, you may have just made my day. Told the boys at the bar he lost it in the Clone War, you wait until they hear.
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| Ars_Dangor | Date: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 2:54 PM | Message # 9 |
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| Quote (Alexia_Romanov) I have a complaint too, but why don't you talk to me in messenger
I don't have to. Also, you weren't online at the time, neither was Adam. Also I don't think it would've been productive, and it doesn't have much to do with Alexia anyway.
Quote (Aleksandr_Kelly) True, the government of Telos IV was replaced. I assume that as an elected senator, Alexia would have the freedom to name a few positions.
That assumption isn't self-evident, but I was fine with it, as I said, provided the role was played impartially. I don't believe it has been, nor do I blame you for being biased; but if that's the case, I ask that you be aware of your bias and not take on roles like this. Sure, Rule 1.2 is blurred from time to time, but it's blurred a lot more so, and repeatedly, by certain people in certain roles—especially when one character is being over-emphasized in proportion to all of that typist's other characters. It's mind-boggling to me that this didn't seem like a bad idea to you at any point given all the ado about 1.2 lately.
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I agree with Schmuel: Adam is well-intentioned here, sure, but the player-controlled companies aren't the only ones in the galaxy—that's bringing out-of-character context in-character. It makes no sense IC to not even mention the many other companies, the Nissans and Fords, if you will. No unbiased character in this situation is going to mention Lorrd in the same breath as Sluis Van or Rothana, let alone Kuat or Corellia which aren't mentioned at all. That's fine if it's Alyn Stark's opinion, but not a character who is notionally an Imperial-appointed character who's supposed to be impartial, or, if he is biased, should be biased in favor of Imperial contractors and surplus ships.
Vizier Ars Dangor
Adviser to the Emperor
Spokesman for the Imperial Ruling Council
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| Alexia_Romanov | Date: Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 3:05 PM | Message # 10 |
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Sergeant
Group: Users
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| Never mind.
Message edited by Alexia_Romanov - Wednesday, 23 Jan 2013, 4:15 PM |
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| Aleksandr_Kelly | Date: Thursday, 24 Jan 2013, 2:37 AM | Message # 11 |
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| Contrary to popular belief, this wasn't some attempt to make Stark look bigger or better. Hence, as I stated, the player-controlled companies were the ones contacted. I was doing it with the intent to create more actual play in mind. Nonetheless, I'll withdraw this character as the DM of Telos IV and I shall let someone better equipped, so to speak, assist Jess in this regard.
[b]Aleksandr Kelly[/b]
Defense Minister of Telos IV
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| Alexia_Romanov | Date: Thursday, 24 Jan 2013, 8:43 AM | Message # 12 |
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Sergeant
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| By the way....I've refused to accept his resignation and we're going to rework the ships and try again. Crisis averted. Small village saved. Lets move on, shall we?
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| Jorund_Jastrinas | Date: Thursday, 24 Jan 2013, 10:38 AM | Message # 13 |
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| Question. If the position is one that is supposed to be appointed by the Empire, then shouldn't the decision fall to the Management approving a request for the character, or allow Sate to appoint a Pro-Imperial NPC into the position rather than someone just grabbing at the position without a second though. I believe that it should fall to someone who can be impartial about the situation.
Vice-Admiral Jastrinas
Imperial Fifth Bombard Fleet
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| Ars_Dangor | Date: Thursday, 24 Jan 2013, 1:27 PM | Message # 14 |
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| Quote (Jorund_Jastrinas) If the position is one that is supposed to be appointed by the Empire
It's ambiguous whether it's appointed by the Empire or not. One can't help but wonder why a Senator is appointing anyone, or in a position to refuse resignations, etc. However, the Empire assuming control of Telos IV was done for OOC reasons, to place the planet in NPC hands since Tremaine was no longer RPing it and, in his absence, the planet was being taken advantage of. With Alexia interested in it now, I'm less inclined to assert Imperial control over it for no practical OOC reason. That is, I'm okay with it basically being handed over, OOC, from the Empire to her. This is why I don't object in principle to Aleksandr Kelly being appointed Defense Minister without consulting us; it was the way it was RPed that made it a nonsensical situation, and according to Alexia they plan to correct this so, indeed, village saved.
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Quote (Aleksandr_Kelly) Contrary to popular belief, this wasn't some attempt to make Stark look bigger or better.
Quote (Ars_Dangor) I'm not saying it's malicious
Quote (Ars_Dangor) Adam is well-intentioned here
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Quote (Aleksandr_Kelly) Hence, as I stated, the player-controlled companies were the ones contacted. I was doing it with the intent to create more actual play in mind.
I understand. But this is still bringing out-of-character context in-character in a way that makes the actions of your character make no logical sense IC. In my opinion it's no more ok to use OOC knowledge for good than for evil. It seems to me people are being far too cavalier about OOC/IC distinctions lately; is it unreasonable to ask that characters just behave in a logical way without OOC preconceptions and attitudes—or foreknowledge, in the case of Felucia—being brought into play? I'm seeing this as an issue of RPing in good faith, and I'm sad that it seems not to be happening for one well-intentioned reason or another.
I think if we just restored the basic level of trust that we've always had in each other to RP fairly then things would go smoother than they've been lately. I think it's both an Adam problem and a Jace problem and a problem that many of us have been having. Perhaps we can indeed talk it out in Messenger. We're pretty much a family here; we've had a lot of good times on this site and this kind of distrust isn't like us.
Vizier Ars Dangor
Adviser to the Emperor
Spokesman for the Imperial Ruling Council
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| Jaron | Date: Thursday, 24 Jan 2013, 2:01 PM | Message # 15 |
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Major general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 252
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| I keep forgetting you guys know who I personally am, or mostly anyways. Always throws me; especially when reference is made is such a blunt manner. Jamie.
Jaron Park
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
(pre-April 2012 posts) (post-April 2012 posts)
Pre-2009 Archives
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