Regarding Drasek's recent post
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Netan | Date: Tuesday, 20 Apr 2010, 4:04 PM | Message # 1 |
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| Hey, I'm sorry but there's no way your forces can simply pop in and attack the Lucian Alliance. It took a month OOC to finally have your forces be approved to hunt down the Lucian Alliance. It'd be extremely difficult to catch up with the Lucian Alliance, considering that they're a very mobile organization. They would keep on jumping into hyperspace and drops out of hyperspace (back and forth) from system to system, from sector to sector. You can't just pop in and attack the Lucian Alliance forces whenever you like to. The NRI even was putting a lot of efforts into simply trying to find the Lucian Alliance, unsuccessfully, only to have your forces just pop in and fire on them. Once again, I'm sorry but there's no way your forces would be able to catch up with the Lucian Alliance. It'd be extremely difficult to even keep track of their hyperspace trips. I believe the attacks should be voided, besides I have never mentioned where the Lucian Alliance fleet were stationed at anyway. So how would your forces find them using both OOC or IC knowledge?
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Rath-Deschain | Date: Tuesday, 20 Apr 2010, 6:15 PM | Message # 2 |
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| Valid questions all, and I do have answers, though this may require Jace's final say. First off, the acquisition of forces only included the CR90 and five Z-95 headhunters, as well as a bulk cruiser that isn't even participating in the attack. The DP20, Starchasers and T-wings were already acquired. Secondly, the gaps in my request postings were due to my time spent in Airborne school, which, coupled with the end of OSUT, have made it problematic. I discussed with Jace last night the Ebon Fist tracking the Lucian Alliance after the Endor attack, either by long-range scanners from a well-equipped converted Lambda shuttle (mentioned at the end of the Endor attack thread), to Z-95 tracking. As well, when Netan and Hejin conversed, it would be possible to set an initial tracking with the datastream and various code slicers in the payroll of the group. Also, Cale has the use of the Force, much as Darth Maul used to track down Queen Amidala. I doubted the New Republic would let the Fist attack, but the point was for them to be present. I'm more than willing to make some compromises, but I'd like management input as well.
Rath Deschain High Inquisitor
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Jace_Varitek | Date: Tuesday, 20 Apr 2010, 8:25 PM | Message # 3 |
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| I'm assuming there's only one practical way to follow a fleet in hyperspace (for short distance hyperspace jumps, mind you); that is, to make a series of microjumps along the last known trajectory of a fleet, and each time conduct a long range scan to try to find traces of whatever particle it is from the hyperdrive—the name of which I forget—that would give away the next trajectory that the target fleet would have already gone. Then it's a matter of repeating this process until, ideally, the target fleet can be found stopped somewhere nearby (probably, usually, stopped to calculate a more precise, long-range jump). ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░ I submit as precedent for this the following exchange between Drasek and Jamie in the "Soiree at Deralia" thread from quite some time ago: ASHIKAGE: "Unless the Kruus had some sort of super-advanced hyperspace-to-subspace sensor that allowed them to see where ships were, they would have no clue where the Sith vessel had come to halt." KRUUS: "If the Kruusificent was not behind the acclamator that was sitting in system, it was following painstakingly the hyperspace trail of the previous one that had been in-system" ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░ So, as I understand it, the Lucian Alliance fleet made a short hyperspace jump from Endor to nearby Rhen Var, and at Rhen Var it would then prepare to make another hyperspace jump elsewhere. So, to track Netan, the method would presumably have to go like this: Step 1.) Jump to hyperspace along his last known trajectory. Step 2.) Drop out of hyperspace every few lightyears and do a scan for his ships or for a trace of his ships, as quickly as you can. If you find the ships at Rhen Var before they leave, great. If you're too late and the ships are gone from Rhen Var, but you detect a trace of their hyperspace jump away from there, then repeat Step 1. But again, if the Lucian Alliance has made a long-range jump, say, from Rhen Var to somewhere across the galaxy, the odds of finding him then are literally astronomically unlikely because Step 2 wouldn't get you anywhere; it would take years to pick up the trail again, and the trail dissipates, I believe, in a matter of hours. So the Republic's ships could probably track the Lucian Alliance as far as Rhen Var in a matter of four or five minutes, if they move fast enough. Considering the time it takes to reorient a fleet and calculate another jump, it's possible that Jade's and Leigh's forces could get there before the Lucian Alliance has time to jump again from Rhen Var to elsewhere. They would have to, because once the Lucian Alliance leaves Rhen Var, that's it. They'll be long gone. So if Jade changes "For the past couple of weeks" in her post to read, instead, something like "For the past 5 minutes," it's concievable they could find the Lucian Alliance at Rhen Var. At least, this is all as I understand it, which could well be incorrect. If so, please do correct me. My way seems logical, however. As for Drasek, he could concievably do this method too if he's also present at Endor. Two concerns though; 1.) The Republic's ships and Drasek's ships both trying to track Netan along the same trajectory would probably confuse one another and possibly lose Netan's trail as a result, and 2.) I've never been quite clear on how Drasek's pirates knew that the Lucian Alliance was at Endor in the first place (although I didn't mention this until now). I'm not sure if Darth Maul used the Force to locate Amidala from a far away, celestial location (that's what the probe droids were about, as I understand it). Darth Vader didn't seem to have this ability either (witness the Falcon's escape from Bespin). So, with respect, I don't think Drasek should have that much power. I've said a lot, so I'll let everyone in here to comment.
Jace Varitek Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?" —John Maynard Keynes
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Rath-Deschain | Date: Tuesday, 20 Apr 2010, 8:38 PM | Message # 4 |
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| You know, I was never too sure about the probe droids, whether they were for movie addition or what, because it never explained how Maul was on Coruscant, yet tracked them to Tatooine. I believe in my Endor post (though it is difficult to locate on my phone) that Cale had been searching for the Alliance for some time, which would mean posting small scout craft in locations likely to draw raiders. It was the basis for Lim Hejin's contact with Netan. There is one alternate possibility that works, covering the last month or so of my absence and also giving the Alliance time to reocate as they seem to have done. Many of the Ebon Fist come from varied backgrounds and, likely as not, have 'friends' in a number of professions including bounty hunting, information selling, slavery and so forth. In this regard, they have a wider network to draw from, considering most such beings are either overlooked by the New Republic or do not mix company with them. If the Lucian Alliance is such an impressive group as they claim to be (not to mention flamboyant), word tends to get around, even if it does take time. From there, it's just a matter of seeding several sectors with snubcraft that can detect ships operating under Lucian transponders. I'm not sure how this idea sits with everyone though. I'd given it some thought before I posted.
Rath Deschain High Inquisitor
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Jade_Paddox | Date: Tuesday, 20 Apr 2010, 10:37 PM | Message # 5 |
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| Just as a note, I am not Drasek. To continue concerning my part, I had consulted Jace concerning the method, which he has presented, and found it reasonable that this attack could occur. I've made the relevant change that Jace mentioned. One aspect of RP is that despite the timespan in RL, there is a different timespan IC. For instance, a massive battle takes place, RL it would take several days, if not weeks, to take place. Conceivably, IC'ly, it would of lasted only a day to a week unless otherwise stated by the combatants. And while RL, some time has passed since Endor, IC, you haven't really done anything that I was aware of, so presumably, your group has done...nothing. Added (20 Apr 2010, 11:37 PM) --------------------------------------------- As an aside, your recent activity, I believe should you decide to use that in an arguement against my reasoning, involves the mention and deployment of forces that have not been requested and thus do not exist, therefore making said action null and void.
Brevet Commodore Jade Paddox Nebulon-B2 Frigate Venerable New Republic Task Force Quickfire
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Jace_Varitek | Date: Thursday, 22 Apr 2010, 1:03 AM | Message # 6 |
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| It's true that no one has really been posting much over the past month (myself included), so I don't necessarily hold it against Jade for the delay. As for Drasek's reasoning, it seems fairly sound although, in fairness, I suppose Netan should probably have some say in it since it makes some assumptions about the discretion of the Lucian Alliance. What do you think, Netan? Do you think Drasek has characterized the situation fairly, or do you still have some reservations about whether or not he could locate you at Endor? Netan is correct insofar as it's been assumed that the Lucian Alliance has covered its tracks well enough that even the NRI hasn't been able to locate them (yet). Drasek may have offered a convincing explanation for this, however. Again I defer to Netan's thoughts on this before I come down either way. I invite other managers also, of course.
Jace Varitek Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?" —John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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Netan | Date: Monday, 26 Apr 2010, 3:50 PM | Message # 7 |
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| I have spoken with Jace on this on the messenger, and my thoughts on this remains the same. There are details that contradict Paddox's ability to catch up with Netan and the Lucian Alliance. First of all, in order to get authorization all the way from Coruscant would take at least ten minutes due to the transmission going through several different relays and how fast the personnel on Coruscant would respond. Even then, Paddox's forcs would need to take some time getting into hyperspace, three or four minutes at most. The Lucian Alliance fleet would have calculated a coordinate the moment they drop out of hyperspace, so even if Paddox's forces caught up with Netan's...the fleet would have already in process of getting jumped back into hyperspace. Because of the authorization process and the time frame, it would take PAddox's forces three to four minutes to reenter into hyperspace and by then they would lose track of the Lucian Alliance. So I don't think it's possible that the attack would take place, no more than a mere sighting of the Lucian Alliance fleet before vanquishing.
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Jade_Paddox | Date: Tuesday, 27 Apr 2010, 5:40 PM | Message # 8 |
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| From where do you get your figures that it would take ten minutes for communication, and the three to four minutes to make a hyperspace jump? I can not find a canon source saying that transmissions in this era have a delay, if so then it is milliseconds, not minutes. I can go with a delay in order to gain authorization, but nowhere near ten minutes, in my mind. Jace can of course, correct me on that aspect. Addressing getting into hyperspace however, I will strongly argue against the statement that it would take three to four minutes to make a jump to hyperspace. To that end, I source ESB. It took the Death Squadron, a fleet of an Executor-class Star Dreadnaught and twenty-four Imperial-class Star Destroyers from time of order to execution, a total of two to three minutes to make a coordinated dispersed deployment. I could do a complete timing, but I'm currently lacking the film. This was a fleet of twenty five large capital ships. This is an element of two medium capital ships, jumping in the same direction, albeit in tactically sound fashion, but the tactic would not take long to formulate, and wouldn't be that hard to execute. One minute, two tops. In concern of your actions at Rhen Var, you were recovering an X-Wing, sending ships out on patrol, planning out your next move, getting information on someone, regrouping your fleet, coordinating a jump, etc. This would have taken awhile. If not catching them there, they would have seen enough to calculate your trajectory to Telos. At Telos, you drop out of hyperspace, have to find a single ship at a moderately busy port, capture said ship, and then proceed onwards. My element would be able to arrive for sure in time to see this, and not only that, but the local defense force, customs, traffic control, etc. could have your trajectory on your jump waiting for me the moment I revert to realspace right on your tail. Later in that thread, you jump to hyperspace, headed for the tingel arm, but never state dropping out or arriving or anything. Once you do arrive at the destination, this is where this encounter would presumably take place, the entire time keeping the tactical plan in mind, little delay would be encountered by my Task Element, thus, the attack could take place as needed, as the jump from Rhen Var and from Telos could take place moments after yours, rather than the time it would take to leave Endor. Citing that arguement, and no canon facts supporting your claim of marked delay, I would continue to insist my part in this battle is still valid. Drasek, however, I would contend, would certainly not be involved, as he had no one involved in the chase, or any tracking device in place or any inside sources. Added (27 Apr 2010, 6:40 PM) --------------------------------------------- Due to the realization that such an act is a breach of my orders, and would result in rather dire consequences, on top of some question of the ability to do so with a functioning crew intact for the encounter, I am voiding my attack on the Lucian Alliance.
Brevet Commodore Jade Paddox Nebulon-B2 Frigate Venerable New Republic Task Force Quickfire
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Rath-Deschain | Date: Tuesday, 27 Apr 2010, 7:19 PM | Message # 9 |
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| To forestall any issues and to allow Jade to dismantle the Lucian Alliance quickly and more effeciently, I withdraw my post from the thread.
Rath Deschain High Inquisitor
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