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Ultimatum to Carratos
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Tuesday, 05 Oct 2010, 7:04 PM | Message # 1 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 250
Status: Offline
| Senators, the issue at Carratos is not simply the fact that the Fallanassi, a dangerous group of Force-wielding warrior women, are hiding in the planet's remote villages (although it is that too). The real issue is that the government of Carratos allows this to happen! This is flagrant defiance of the Empire! Oh sure, they say that they're doing all they can to find the Fallanassi, but clearly, Senators, clearly they are not doing enough. Do they not understand that as long as the Fallanassi are alive they are a danger to us all? To Eriadu as well as to Carratos? They must be stamped out, just like the treasonous Jedi. Their seditious words and seditious ways must never again be seen or heard in this galaxy. And if Carratos won't do it, the Empire must. I propose Carratos have 30 days to capture the Fallanassi fugitives and hand them over to the Empire. If they don't, the Senate authorizes Imperial forces to use any and all measures necessary, including punitive measures, to capture the fugitives and bring Carratos into line. Eriadu votes in favor. Anyone who doesn't, in my view, deserves to die. That sounds harsh, yes, but I don't apologize for it. Anyone who doesn't vote in favor of this measure deserves to die because they are allowing dangerous killers to remain on the loose. This cannot be tolerated.
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
Message edited by Johannes_Oswaldt - Tuesday, 05 Oct 2010, 7:14 PM |
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Wednesday, 06 Oct 2010, 2:14 PM | Message # 2 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 379
Status: Offline
| I do not believe it was the government that allowed this to happen. You cannot blame a government completely for what has happened on their planet. One cannot control every aspect of their citizens lives. It is an impossiblity that we must realize and deal with. As for the Fallanassi in general, if I was male I would not want to mess with these ladies. Actually a female myself, I am quite content to allow them to continue living as they have had for years, well before the Empire. I must vote against this motion. If this choice puts me on Senator Oswaldt's death list, then so be it. I would however like to warn the senator about the use of such threats in this chamber. It is unprofessional and inapportiate to use them here. Please keep such threats to yourself.
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Wednesday, 06 Oct 2010, 5:15 PM | Message # 3 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 891
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| Governor Oswaldt, we have not yet had the opportunity to meet in person, but your reputation precedes you already. I do tend to agree with Senator Cerra, that the government of Carratos cannot be completely and totally held responsible for the....ah....near impossible task of 'controlling' the Fallanassi women. If they are as dangerous as you suggest, Governor, of course. I agree with you that the Fallanassi could be a potential threat, and dangerous to anyone that they conceive to be an enemy. I will agree, Governor, to allow Carratos 30 days in order to contain the 'sitation' before Imperial intervention may become necessary. I wonder though, how many Imperial lives is it worth to you to control this race of warrior women? Additionally, much like Senator Cerra, I find your threat to be inappropriately placed in this chamber. Your opinion is, of course, valid, but your threat to the lives and safety to anyone that opposes you is completely unwarranted.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Thursday, 07 Oct 2010, 9:07 PM | Message # 4 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 250
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| Ladies, you're beautiful, but with all due respect there's a difference between saying someone deserves to die and actually threatening to kill that person. Rest assured, I could never bring myself to threaten either of you lovely ladies, even you Senator Cerra even though I notice you voted against this measure and, also, you aren't my type. I do like feisty women, mind you, but I prefer them a bit more.. aureate. And speaking of Senator Thanatos, you ask me, Senator, how many Imperial lives is it worth to me to eliminate these agents of chaos? How many Imperial lives is it worth to you not to eliminate them? By acting now, we're saving lives.. maybe our lives, or our childrens. As for whether Carratos can be held responsible, well.. after 30 days, they can and will be.
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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| Mical_de_Crion | Date: Thursday, 07 Oct 2010, 9:16 PM | Message # 5 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 151
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| I'm afraid, until a diplomatic effort is made as resolving this problem, I can not and will not vote in support of any measure that demands violence and warfare against a world or government. It is diplomacy that will bring the peace and security the Emperor wishes so much for, not reckless application of military force. Dare I say, it was diplomacy, genuine diplomacy, that would have brought a quick end to the Clone Wars...perhaps even ended it before it began. Throughout history, it is a severe lack of diplomacy and overt military action that has led to a major war. I neither see the point of expanding Order 66 against Force sects outside of the Jedi Order, when it was intended for the Jedi Order who led an unsuccessful coup against the Republic and led to the need of the Empire. They did not participate in the coup, and until sufficient, irrefutable evidence can be presented that shows otherwise, I can not support violence against these groups. I vote against this measure.
Mical Léo de Crion
Director, All Stars Burn As One Foundation
Chairman, Urban Youth College Fund
Owner, Château Hiver Rivière
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Thursday, 07 Oct 2010, 9:49 PM | Message # 6 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
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| Senator Crion, I would pose this question to you; do you deny that individuals who possess exceptional abilities with the Force must, necessarily, be treated exceptionally under the law? Surely you would agree that this is true of the Jedi, who have the ability to influence a man's thoughts, or to kill him simply by looking at him (although, charmingly, the Jedi usually opt to dismember their foes in what one might charitably call the "old fashioned way"). The Fallanassi may be a more innocuous order, but the fact remains that they combine very dangerous, very deadly abilities with a religious view that teaches that "authority is an illusion," and that "everyone should serve only their own desires." In some respects, Senator Crion, this is even more radical than the Jedi, for at least the Jedi aren't anarchists who oppose any form of government. Although Governor Oswaldt could certainly exercise a bit more restraint in his words, I do not disagree with the general case that he makes. The Fallanassi are dangerous, and His Majesty is right to defend the people from them. Whether or not Carratos could be doing more to detain the Fallanassi, I cannot be sure. But thirty days is ample time for them to do so, and thus I vote in favor of the resolution. I would encourage Senator Crion and Senator Cerra to reconsider. I don't believe this measure is as sinister as it must seem to you.
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Friday, 08 Oct 2010, 4:22 AM | Message # 7 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
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| With all due respect, Governor Oswaldt, a difference between saying someone deserve to die and actually threatening to kill someone isn't all that different. Was Governor Oswaldt wrong to propose that Carratos have thirty days to capture the Fallanassi fugitives and turn them over to the mighty Empire? No, absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with that. But is it okay to have the Senate authorize the Imperial forces to use any and all measures necessary? I do not think so. I can clearly see why the Fallanassi fugitives could pose as a threat to the Galactic Empire. But with due respect to Senator Cambrist and Governor Oswaldt, the Fallanassi haven't done anything to harm the Galactic Empire, unlike the Jedi Knights. They didn't attempt to stage a coup over His Majesty. Instead of allowing the Imperial forces to use any and all means necessary, the stormtroopers could simply capture them and put them into a maximum security prison. As of the government of Carratos, I'm sorry but I have to agree with Senators Cerra and Thanatos here. It is an impossible task to control every citizen's lives. The best a government can do is to enforce laws on their citizens and subdue them whenever they break a law. I also suggest that the Senate confer with the government of Carratos before seeing whether their government were truly aiding those fugitives and whether we should clean the government out and replace them with people that are far more likely to cooperate with His Majesty. I agree with Senator Crion here that diplomacy should be used. We cannot go subjugate every world because of things that are possibly out of their reach. If that happens, the Empire will have a lot more enemies than it already has. If we want peace, we must truly show every sentient being in the galaxy that. I must vote against Governor Oswaldt's radical proposal.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Sunday, 10 Oct 2010, 5:05 PM | Message # 8 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Senator, you say that there is "nothing wrong" with an ultimatum to Carratos requiring them to apprehend these fugitives within 30 days, and indeed I agree with you. If I understood you, what concerns you is that if Carratos does not do this, the Empire would be permitted to do so with "any and all means necessary." I will address only this point, then. I ask you, Senator, what means would you be willing to use to stop someone from influencing your mind with the Force? Or influencing the minds of your friends, or family, or worse, of the government figures on your world? What if the thoughts and deeds of Telosian mayors, judges, police, or military commanders were being manipulated? What if, in fact, you did not know for certain this was even happening? This is the situation we are faced with at Carratos, Senator. It is an extraordinary situation that requires extraordinary measures. It requires, indeed, any and all measures necessary. But also, "any and all means necessary" does not necessarily mean that the Fallanassi will simply be killed, as you seem to suggest. I honestly don't believe that the Empire would do something so horrible. No, Senator, "any and all means necessary" means exactly what it says—that the Empire will use the necessary means to capture these dangerous individuals, and make sure that they do no harm to anyone else. The necessary means, and no more. Senator, surely we agree there is nothing more precious or more private than one's freedom of thought. The Fallanassi, like the Jedi, have no respect for this. Perhaps it is true that the Fallanassi have not attempted a coup against the Empire, but would you permit them to do so? I, personally, would not. That is why I support this measure, and why, I feel, you should support it as well. It is not at all a "radical" proposal. What are truly radical are the Fallanassi foes we face on Carratos. I would suggest to you, with all due respect, that they are a far greater danger than the one you are worried about. Please do reconsider.
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Sunday, 10 Oct 2010, 5:34 PM |
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| Artemis_Vanden | Date: Sunday, 10 Oct 2010, 6:35 PM | Message # 9 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 302
Status: Offline
| I have misgivings about this, but if it must be then it must be. I will not oppose it. However, I agree with Senator Crion that there should be one more attempt at diplomacy made before it becomes necessary to use force. To that end, I will be traveling to Carratos within this thirty day period to evacuate.. any concerns that the Empire may have. I feel it is also important that the Senate has a clear idea of what's really happening there, and I intend to provide this.
Artemis Vanden
Representative of the Naboo
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Monday, 11 Oct 2010, 4:18 AM | Message # 10 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 353
Status: Offline
| It must be known that any government harboring any traitors must be dealt with in a fashionable manner, however before we jump to any conclusions, there must be evidence of this that grant us the authority and right to deal with this in such a fashion I will leave up to the Emperor himself; whether it be a military invasion or a negotiation. I recommend we hold off on deciding whether or not to drag the government heads through the streets or we let them be. Therefore I vote against this act until Senator Vanden has given us a solid answer.
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Monday, 11 Oct 2010, 1:22 PM | Message # 11 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| I take strong exception to your words, Mr. Ray, as I'm sure His Majesty does too. It is vulgar to suggest that the Empire would "drag heads through the streets," whether you meant this literally or figuratively. Also, it's my understanding that you have apparently disbanded your government on Dantooine and formed a new one, and thus you no longer represent the "SEICD" in this Senate. According to the parliamentary procedures, section 1, subsection D, any prospective Senator must petition for membership in this body upon being elected, or otherwise selected, to represent a government. Since you now represent a new government, Mr. Ray, I'm afraid you must petition for membership once again. And because, according to Rule 4.1, "new Senators may not vote on a measure for which voting was already in progress at the time they became a Senator," I'm afraid your vote on this resolution is stricken from the record and, upon petitioning the Senate and being accepted again, you will be remain disqualified from voting on this. Also, Mr. Ray, perhaps when you have the time you can respond to the letter I sent you, and explain, if you would, exactly what is happening on your planet. Representative Vanden, Senator Crion, at this point I hardly think a diplomatic mission is necessary. But if you insist upon it then so be it. However, Representative, you are expected to cooperate and to coordinate your travel plans with the Imperial forces there. For your own safety, of course. Carratos is a dangerous place, after all.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
Message edited by Sate_Pestage - Monday, 11 Oct 2010, 1:26 PM |
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Monday, 11 Oct 2010, 4:51 PM | Message # 12 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
Status: Offline
| After having conferred with the Grand Vizier himself regarding Carratos, I believe that it is in the best interests of the Galactic Empire that I change my vote to in favor.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 11 Oct 2010, 5:42 PM | Message # 13 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| Governor Oswaldt and Representative Vanden have both made good points. However, for the good of the Empire, I vote in favor.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Toben-Domon | Date: Monday, 11 Oct 2010, 6:18 PM | Message # 14 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 347
Status: Offline
| Dear, dear me. I fear I must vote in favor of this measure as well. Having bands of Force-empowered fugitives running around and causing dissent and robbing people of their free will is dangerous indeed. By all means, apprehend them. Peacefully, if it can be done, of course.
Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Tuesday, 12 Oct 2010, 4:56 PM | Message # 15 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| The ultimatum is passed with 71% in favor and 29% opposed. His Majesty thanks the Senate for its cooperation, and Governor Oswaldt for proposing this measure.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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