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Amendment to the Intra-Imperial Relations Act
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Monday, 19 Sep 2011, 1:06 AM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| As the author of the Intra-Imperial Relations Act I propose the following amendments to take into account the realities of the application of the law as we have come to understand them in recent months.
• "Section I, Article II" in its current form is amended to "Section I, Article III."
• "Section I, Article III" in its current form is amended to "Section I, Article IV."
• The following text shall take the place of "Section I, Article II" in its current form: "Notification of the use of force need not be provided if it is the direct consequence of A.) a use of force that the Empire has already permitted, or B.) treaty obligations, which must be publicly disseminated and understood."
In short, the purpose of this amendment is to state that only the initial use of force requires notification, and that other worlds participating in or retaliating against that use of force need not provide notification. Also, that notification needn't be provided if a treaty obligates a world to use force under well defined and well understood circumstances. It's a minor point, but a logical one that will avoid onerous bureaucracy and liability to frivolous lawsuits. I vote in favor.
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Monday, 19 Sep 2011, 1:08 AM |
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| Titus_Veritas | Date: Monday, 19 Sep 2011, 1:46 AM | Message # 2 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 166
Status: Offline
| Ensuring that bureaucracy does not complicate matters of defense, or any form of operation at the local level, is preferable to the alternative that plagued the Republic for so long. I vote in favor.
Viceroy Titus Veritas, House Veritas
Consul of the House of Lords
Former Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (50 BBY - 30 BBY, 18 BBY - 10 BBY)
Former Chairman of the Imperial Senate Defense Committee (18 BBY - 10 BBY)
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Monday, 19 Sep 2011, 3:35 PM | Message # 3 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
Status: Offline
| Senator Cambrist,
Basically you're proposing less deliberating and more action, correct?
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Monday, 19 Sep 2011, 6:23 PM | Message # 4 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Quite right, Senator.
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| Artemis_Vanden | Date: Thursday, 22 Sep 2011, 0:18 AM | Message # 5 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 302
Status: Offline
| It appears to me the wording of the amendment permits ahead of time any and all unforeseen consequences of having permitted the use of force on a particular occasion, including potentially the escalation of force into a state of interstellar war as we nearly witnessed at Monor II. Is this not the case?
Artemis Vanden
Representative of the Naboo
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Thursday, 22 Sep 2011, 0:35 AM | Message # 6 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| No, that is not the case. The Representative is wrong as usual.
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| Artemis_Vanden | Date: Thursday, 22 Sep 2011, 1:54 AM | Message # 7 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 302
Status: Offline
| Honestly I don't see how I'm wrong. Substitute the word "unintended" for the word "direct" and one can see that this amendment could easily allow an initial use of force to escalate into something entirely unforeseen. I'm sure the Senator hasn't entertained this possibility, but it is conceivable that in this one instance in his life he could be wrong himself.
Artemis Vanden
Representative of the Naboo
Message edited by Artemis_Vanden - Thursday, 22 Sep 2011, 1:55 AM |
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Thursday, 22 Sep 2011, 2:06 AM | Message # 8 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I'm not. The Representative is conflating the words "unintended" and "unforeseen" together as if the Empire, in its decision whether to permit the use of force, is incapable of assessing the consequences of doing so. Interstellar diplomacy is seldom so unpredictable, and with all due respect it's timidity of this sort that perpetuates the kind of bureaucracy that the amendment is attempting to rid us of—a corrective amendment proposed by the very author of the original legislation who, thus, requires no lessons in introspection from Representative Vanden.
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Thursday, 22 Sep 2011, 2:06 AM |
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Friday, 23 Sep 2011, 12:38 PM | Message # 9 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
Status: Offline
| Senator Cambrist,
Representative Vanden does bring a valid point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this amendment could aid in faster responses as much as it could aid in causing a greater harm. If there were going to be less debating and more action being taken, then isn't it reasonable to consider a possibility that there's going to be someone that wants to take advantage of this and abuse one's power?
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Titus_Veritas | Date: Friday, 23 Sep 2011, 9:04 PM | Message # 10 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 166
Status: Offline
| Senator Fowlkes, Representative Vanden, are you two saying that should an Imperial local government come under attack from another, that it must first obtain Imperial permission to defend itself and respond, thus allowing countless lives, that could be saved, to die? Senator Fowlkes, did you ever lose a man under your command? Representative Vanden, have you ever had to tell a wife that her husband and father of her children, or a mother and father that their only son, will be coming home in a casket? Have either of you witnessed civilian populations being caught in the middle of war? Based upon both of your words, I doubt the answer to any of those questions could be yes. So I ask, before you decide to hammer away at something simply because you have a grievance with the Empire, because you wish to restore the corruption of the Republic, or simply because the individual proposing a bill sits separate from you ideologically, try thinking of others... try thinking of those that will actually be impacted.
Viceroy Titus Veritas, House Veritas
Consul of the House of Lords
Former Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (50 BBY - 30 BBY, 18 BBY - 10 BBY)
Former Chairman of the Imperial Senate Defense Committee (18 BBY - 10 BBY)
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 5:54 AM | Message # 11 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| I vote in favour of this adjustment, it is suitably minor and clarifies matters nicely.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 12:37 PM | Message # 12 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| With no votes against this sensible measure, it passes unanimously.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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