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The Capital Vessels Act II
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Tuesday, 27 Sep 2011, 3:42 PM | Message # 46 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
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| Senator Fitzgerald,
I am quite stunned that Senator Fitzgerald would propose such an idea in such an opposed way to my bill.
The Capital ships act does not make any provisions which would prohibit any currently legal capital vessel acts. Please could he list for me the provisions under which the Druckenwell or Sluis Van fleets would be illegal. I feel Senator Fitzgerald is flirting with misleading the Senate in his aggression towards this act.
Please state to me where any present planetary fleet would be illegal - if it is so I will redact the parts of this act which make it so. I pose to the senate the question that senator Fitzgerald is in no uncertain terms wrong and that he is simply attacking this act for political capital.
What regulation would he support on Capital Vessels? Perhaps just lets let have the Neimoidians have their Lucrehulks? Let the IGBC have their Munificent-class vessels.. should we let a new techno union arm ships? Come Senator Fitzgerald.. please do let me know.
You say a lot of words without having any real substance. Please provide me with a sensible alternative to the act and I will support it, but until then I feel this new legislation is the best we have to help companies and people arm themselves without being able to threaten the Empire. Should Companies be able to threaten the Empire?
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Titus_Veritas | Date: Tuesday, 27 Sep 2011, 6:55 PM | Message # 47 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 166
Status: Offline
| Senator Oriel, in order for something to be deregulatory, it would in fact have to eliminate regulation, thus the term deregulation. Eliminating or lessening two items from your original bill, but adding several paragraphs on top of your already existing legislation, in fact, goes against deregulation in every form, so I would watch myself, if I were you, on claiming others are misleading the Senate with their word, as this entire debate, and the entire debate on the previous legislation, was you misleading the Senate.
I notice too, in this legislation, and previous legislation, despite the popular Defense Committee effort to sell Clone Wars-era surplus off to the local governments, you are demanding elimination of Clone Wars-era assets within this legislation, thus attempting to discourage and eliminate an extremely beneficial, and profitable, program for the Empire. Through this program, worlds which are fielding assets dating beyond the Clone Wars, or any relatively recent conflict, are now fielding the previous generation of the tools of defense. This not only allows our worlds to defend themselves efficiently and effectively against the man threat, Separatist Remnant attacks and pirate raids, but also sets us up to be one, if not several, steps ahead should a world revolt.
Now, a couple of points here... I see that the deregulation that is occurring is the elimination of the Quad Turbolaser ban and a lessening of the Heavy Turbolaser ban. I should point here that Sluis Van, perhaps the galaxy's current primary independent shipyard, has voted for this legislation. It is of no surprise to me, seeing as if this legislation doesn't pass, their new production line's capital ships would be illegal for anyone but the Imperial government, which is unlikely to adopt them, as fine of a line as it is. And if my reports are correct, even the new bill would render the upcoming additions to this line, still, illegal, as they would be illegal without this bill's passage as well. I'm surprised Sluis Van would go along any regulation of such a limiting nature, and surely damaging to their own sales. Granted, they probably have older models that can still be sold under the current laws, but to have your entire line eliminated due to a law written by the son of a Separatist world, would be devastating to the economy of Sluis Van. I can see why Sluis Van votes in favor, for it is a vote of survival... I am curious, however, if the state of the Sluissi business cataloge was taken into account by the Commerce Committee's assessment.
Now, for speaking of trying to lighten my workload, Senator Oriel, you are only increasing it tenfold with this legislation. So, no matter how much you claim to be helping me, I am telling you that you are hindering me. If you wish to help me, Senator, then drop this bill and repeal the original. I can tell you right now, the Defense Committee, nor any existing arm of the Imperial government, is not equipped or manned to regulate this legislation, none is still equipped or manned to regulate the original legislation. So, Senator Oriel, how do you propose we actually ensure compliance and bring about enforcement?
All I see here are attempts to weaken the local forces in their ability to defend themselves, and attempts to weaken the Empire in turn. This can not, and must not, be allowed. The system we developed at the foundation of the Empire worked... we handled everything superbly before the beginning of this year, and now local defense has become such a mess, as well as the laws surrounding it, that it would be impossible for myself to be replaced on the Defense Committee, or any standing member for that matter, because any new member is going to have to spend nearly a year just to understand all the new laws and regulations. This is ridiculous, and over the top, and I am tired of these constant attempts to grind our government and the local governments to a halt, I am tired of individuals attempts to re-establish levels of bureaucracy that have not existed in nearly a decade. I must, for the sake of the Empire and our worlds, vote Against this legislation.
Viceroy Titus Veritas, House Veritas
Consul of the House of Lords
Former Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (50 BBY - 30 BBY, 18 BBY - 10 BBY)
Former Chairman of the Imperial Senate Defense Committee (18 BBY - 10 BBY)
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| Robert_North | Date: Tuesday, 27 Sep 2011, 10:04 PM | Message # 48 |
 Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 50
Status: Offline
| Citing previous arguments against the original legislation, and arguments against its current incarnation, I must, yet again, vote Against.
The Honorable R.C.W. North
Senator of Imperial Center
Chairman of the Internal Activities Committee Mayor of the Galactic/Imperial City (22 BBY-18 BBY)
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Tuesday, 27 Sep 2011, 11:25 PM | Message # 49 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| Senator Veritas.
In summation - you voted against it because you always vote against defense matters. You raise no valid points - all of the points you make have been addressed, and as ever cling on to your increasingly wobbly seat on the Defense Council by pretending regulations would be too complex, absolute and utter piffle, stuff and nonsense.
As Senator Veritas admits, his committee has failed to keep present legislation enforced (a failing of his not of the legislation) - the Act is simple to enforce, I believe that if a Committee does not fulfill its responsibilities then that Committee should have its head resign. No Senators, Senator Veritas has failed to enforce the act because he voted against it anyway and has a vested interest in its failure.
I also demand your recantation - You call me a "son of a Separatist world", I fought and shed blood for the Empire during the Clone Wars and I damned well deserve better than your sneering insults because an old traitor lived in the house of an old woman on Vjun. He never held the support of the Vjunite people nor of myself, who was busy fighting in the Grand Army of the Republic.
Senator Veritas proposes no alternative other than the situation he at present hates (ignoring my Act to improve the situation). As Senator Cambrist has noted he is simply carrying on old prejudices with no real thought.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Slai-Fon | Date: Tuesday, 27 Sep 2011, 11:54 PM | Message # 50 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 160
Status: Offline
| I've read most of these points and I've got a few things to say.
Sector Moff's are partly charged with protecting our planet's too, senators. As you all know, recently our friend in congress. Tremaine Fowlkes' home planet of Telos IV came under attack by a droid, As to my concern there is no Moff in that sector to his time to lend support to the system, but I am sure one will be appointed soon. Now, what all of you. (With the exception of Senator Titus Veritas, of Deralia.) don't know, is that my home also came under attack, around the same time as Telos IV did. Moff Tycus Gavin Kilran can confirm, as can Senator Veritas. Now, for planetary defenses, we rely on local law enforcement, as in the police, and very rarely a special squad of highly trained men and women of Anobis called the Kinkou squad, whom deals in special threats that the police cannot handle, mind you that these are ground forces. As for space defense, we must rely on Moff Kilran's ship's, and our small amount of fighters that we have to protect us from above.
Our Sector Moff can be at any part of the bright jewel sector when a threat happens, he can be orbiting Anobis, or on the other side of the sector patrolling that side, and if a group of pirates, or separatist's were to attack us and destroy our naval fleet, and disable the shield's we've recently purchased from the defense committee, we would be utterly useless to stop those ships from reigning havoc upon our fair world until the Moff could make his way to our planet, and recently out communication relay with the Moff has been a bit choppy. Perhaps because we are using older versions of communicators.
Senator Oriel, I know this is has the best intent in mind, as did the legislation Anobis' first Senator tried to pass, but it was too complicated and would've caused many problems.
Considering all thing's, I feel for now, I must Abstain from voting, until we can get something, as Senator Baqri said, "Satisfactory" for us all.
Let us work something out, as a committee of senator's whom want peace to our planets.
Slai-Fon Youngblood, Senator of Anobis, and the Bright Jewel sector
Chairman of ISEC (Imperial Senate Ethic's Committee.)
Chairman & CEO of K/Y deep.
Message edited by Slai-Fon - Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 1:11 AM |
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| Eli_Fitzgerald | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 0:03 AM | Message # 51 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 355
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| I'm hostile to the bill in principle but I hope I wasn't seen as "aggressive." I find no pleasure in opposing the bill and I don't do it frivolously, and I made a point of shaming those who do so or who do so out of self-interest. But I have my reasons and I made them known; imposing rules and regulations on the rights of the people is not something I do unnecessarily, and this bill does.
You ask me, Senator Oriel, how the fleets of Sluis Van or Druckenwell would be illegal under the bill, which states that planets "are not entitled to maintain a fleet which could be used for acts of aggression against other member worlds of the Galactic Empire." A convincing case can be made that both Sluis Van's fleet and Druckenwell's are more than adequate for "acts of aggression," and under the wording of the bill this is all that's necessary to declare them illegal. The fact that Druckenwell's fleet conducted recent operations at Monor II (and Sluis Van too) would seem to demonstrate the point.
You ask me what regulations I would support, as did Senator Baqri and Senator Thanatos. I for one think the people are capable of self-regulation on this issue; that is, interplanetary treaties on the regulation of capital ships that planets can sign or not sign depending on whether the people feel it's right for them or not—the treaties could also provide for mutual assistance in the event of attack so that signatories aren't vulnerable to non-signatories. There are plenty of reasons a planet would self-regulate in this manner; no planet wants belligerent neighbors for one thing, and the maintenance of capital ships is expensive, too. There could also be economic incentives to sign the treaty. Ralltiir would certainly consider such a treaty with Chandrila, Brentaal, or its other neighbors, and it's not hard to imagine other planets in the area like Abregado-san or Empress Teta signing the treaty also. It's people power, Senator.
But I reject the suggestion at the close of your remarks that until there's alternative we're stuck with the Capital Vessels Act. Senator Veritas is right that the Empire functioned without the Capital Vessels Act before and it can do so again.
Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)
"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."
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| Titus_Veritas | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 0:11 AM | Message # 52 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 166
Status: Offline
| I will not recant my statements in regards to your homeworld. No matter how you wish to twist or manipulate it, Vjun was a supporter of the Confederacy during the Clone Wars, your homeworld. Therefore, you are a son of a Separatist world, Senator. A mere statement of fact about your being, and your world; nothing more, nothing less.
Viceroy Titus Veritas, House Veritas
Consul of the House of Lords
Former Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (50 BBY - 30 BBY, 18 BBY - 10 BBY)
Former Chairman of the Imperial Senate Defense Committee (18 BBY - 10 BBY)
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 1:14 AM | Message # 53 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Senator Veritas, can we address the substance of the bill rather than presumptions about its author? It's worth noting that it's the Senator from Ralltiir, not the Senator from Vjun, who has proposed a confederalist approach to this issue. In opposing Senator Oriel's bill, you must see now that you're appearing to endorse confederalism—the very thing to which you are rightly antipathetic. Assuming we're in agreement that Senator Oriel's approach is preferable, is it not incumbent upon you not to oppose it but to answer the Senator's challenge and offer amendments to improve it? Is this not what the Defense Committee does, Senator? And if you have no amendments to suggest, what basis do you have to oppose the bill rather than doing the conscionable thing; abstain? Surely if the bill does pass it would be useful for the chairman in charge of its enforcement to have a claim to impartiality on the matter.
Added (28 Sep 2011, 2:14 Am)
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And Senator Youngblood, you must see, surely, that Senator Oriel's bill isn't germane to the circumstances you've described in your sector? The problem there, as I've understood you, is a lack of resources in an economically depressed region; there's nothing to stop Anobis from acquiring more ships if it can afford to do so, and if not the Empire can provide loans and preferential sales and other remedies, just as it can also provide Moff Kilran with more resources if he requires them. But Senator Oriel's bill doesn't impact this one way or another, and I hope this isn't the basis of your vote. The notion that the bill will be economically damaging to Anobis is also incorrect. If these are your reasons, I do hope you'll reconsider and vote as you did before in favor of the bill.
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| Titus_Veritas | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 1:25 AM | Message # 54 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 166
Status: Offline
| Indeed, it would be preferable for myself to have a claim to impartiality; however, I've dealt with enough issues already from the first incarnation, and as much as he touts otherwise, this bill will only make the jamming of the Defense Committee even worse than we have seen. While Senator Fitzgerald does have it right, in that what we had before worked, and I thank him for acknowledging such, I am not supportive, nor will I ever, of a confederalist approach to local defense. I have recommended that the legislation be sent to the Defense Committee so we may work on improving the legislation, and incorporating other members of the Senate within the committee process. This offer has been rejected, therefore I am unable to do anything but vote against this legislation, as much as I would like to do otherwise, Senator Cambrist.
Viceroy Titus Veritas, House Veritas
Consul of the House of Lords
Former Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (50 BBY - 30 BBY, 18 BBY - 10 BBY)
Former Chairman of the Imperial Senate Defense Committee (18 BBY - 10 BBY)
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| Slai-Fon | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 1:56 AM | Message # 55 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 160
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| After much consideration, I re-vote in favor of this lesgislation, for now. But I want to see more consideration of the other ideas we've heard from Ralltiir and Deralia.
Added (28 Sep 2011, 2:56 Am)
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Also, Senator Cambrist, Resources aren't the problem right now, it's the technology. We've ordered a few new Communicators, and have have heard nothing back about the company we are purchasing them from. Senator Veritas, Perhaps the Defense Committee would be willing to supply Moff Kilran, and The bright Jewel Sector with a few thousand Military Grade Communicators? I'm sure we could work something out.
Slai-Fon Youngblood, Senator of Anobis, and the Bright Jewel sector
Chairman of ISEC (Imperial Senate Ethic's Committee.)
Chairman & CEO of K/Y deep.
Message edited by Slai-Fon - Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 2:01 AM |
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 2:35 AM | Message # 56 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| Senators, the chair remains neutral on this legislation but I've been advised that the tidal shifting of votes from for to against to for to against this bill and the regulatory uncertainty that this creates could have a detrimental impact on interstellar markets and for this reason, if there are no further votes, I intend to close the debate later this morning.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Wednesday, 28 Sep 2011, 1:12 PM | Message # 57 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| With no further votes, the measure passes with 57% in favor and 43% opposed. For the record, the Empire continues to reserve the right to issue exemptions to these regulations on sales to which the Empire is a party or other circumstances in which it has a compelling interest.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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