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Axum Interest Protection Squadron Upgrade and Refit
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| OrionKarath | Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 5:00 AM | Message # 16 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 612
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| I'm not entirely sure what the point was of reposting the stats of an Imperial-I in this response, or what point the beginning sentence is attempting to make in relevance, so for now, I will ignore it. I will say right now that the statement the above stats are outgunned by a Victory-class is a dramatic and false mischaracterization which will get a conversation for any modification of above stats nowhere.
There are no hangars, hence the description hangarless, thus no shuttles, or fighters (I'm assuming that's what "lighters" is meant to be). I'm also left wondering how an hangarless Imperial-I Star Destroyer with no Ion Cannons or Tractor Beam Projector and having its Dual Heavy Ion Cannon Turrets replaced with additional Dual Heavy Turbolaser Turrets being "nerfed". It is an ISD, but it is extremely limited in its roll, per the description. Some things are removed because, frankly, I'm not just going to hand out a statistically similar ISD (especially after the attempt of copying and pasting the stats from Wookieepedia for an ISD and then adding five meters and slightly modifying the ground complement to make it different, which was frankly insulting in my opinion and like Jace alluded to, like a child finger painting). There is also a reason why the Tector is not widely accepted. It would be clear from that that it is not completely similar to the Imperial-class, and there are drawbacks; thus the stats you see above. And I'm sorry, but real-life doesn't have balance or equality, unlike what most games try to do in military designs (i.e. Empire At War) and the Star Wars canon is not filled with balance. There are strengths and weaknesses, and everything is not balanced against everything.
You don't have to like it, you don't have to accept it, but these are the stats, and I'm not going to haggle on it because it isn't tailor made to what you want. If you want it tailor made to the duties you described, make an effort to make an original design. If there is another class of ship you want to try, go find it and we'll see. If you don't want to put forth said effort on this request, which has been the case thus far, then why argue for argument's sake (which the above post can not be taken as any more than such)?
Orion Karath
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
My posts here, pre-2009 archives here
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 9:03 AM | Message # 17 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| So to make it more clear all I am asking is "Why are these weapons which are on the ISD not on the Tector you want to approve?"
Missing from your Tector stats but on the ISD..
Borstel NK-7 ion cannons (60)[1] - Critical part of the gunnery
Phylon Q7 tractor beam projectors (10)[6] - Important for interdiction duties - perhaps it would have fewer than the ISD's 10, but it certainly would have a few so it could dock with supply vessels etc.
Also the ISD has small hangars (for small shuttles and emergency vehicles) around the "blade" of the wedge (in a few sources, admittedly some of them games) in between the armour plates. Just to carry a shuttle or two for planetary liaisons - I assume these hangars would remain (I refuse to believe any vessel this big would lack the capacity to launch a shuttle or two - even if they're not military ones just to say pick up people from deep space if they've ejected, escape pods etc.
I should add that in the previous incarnation of AGW there was no contesting me having a couple of shuttles aboard the Tector-class either from yourself or management when I attempted to take Borosk. As I say these would not be for aggressive purposes, just used like lifeboats and lighters are used on ships.
A lighter is a small vessel used to transfer people around a fleet.Added (15 Jan 2012, 9:03 AM)
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Good discussion of the logic of at least limited hangar capacity (for shuttles and resupply).
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
Message edited by Bernard_Oriel - Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 7:25 AM |
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| Jace_Varitek | Date: Thursday, 19 Jan 2012, 3:08 PM | Message # 18 |
 Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| My view on the Tector, which has been my view since I first mentioned the Tector and before there was a difference of opinion on this, is that it should be treated as an Imperial-class but without a hangar—ultimately, that's all we really know about the ship besides the fact it wasn't a popular design. Jaron's right there must be a reason for its unpopularity, but I'm not convinced that inferior weaponry needs to be that reason. More likely, in my view, without the hangar a Tector, we have to assume, is intended for ship-to-ship combat (it was produced during the Clone Wars, mind you), and this is an era when the Confederacy is gone and the Empire doesn't have enemies with capital ships (generally). Hence the unpopularity of the Tector, seems to me.
But yes, my view as I stated in my post of 12 January is that a "Tector-class and an Escort Carrier [amounts] to the same firepower and complement of an Imperial-class." The assumption I was making there is that the Tector has the same weaponry as an Imperial-class. It also does seem a bit hard to believe there's no hangar at all on the Tector, for the reasons that Jamie has pointed out. I don't see a capital ship functioning without a handful of shuttles and I've always assumed the Tector just didn't have the large main hangar, but still had the smaller forward hangar for shuttles, etc. (A look at the Tector-class in Return of the Jedi does show something that could be a forward hangar if we want it to be (with hangar bay doors closed, understandably in a battle), and I'm inclined to be flexible on that point. At the very least, seems like it could have a small port-side hangar like the one we see in Battlefront 2.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Thursday, 19 Jan 2012, 4:32 PM | Message # 19 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| I am all in favour of Jace's statement.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Karth_DeQora | Date: Thursday, 26 Jan 2012, 2:29 PM | Message # 20 |
 Colonel general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 1157
Status: Offline
| My view on the Tector is that, by virtue of the fact that there are no canonical "stats" for it, that it's safer (and easier) to assume that it really is just the same as an Imperial-class minus the hangar, but with virtually similar armament. As Jace has stated, it was designed for ship-to-ship combat in an era where large capital ships pounded away at each other mercilessly, it makes sense that it would have armament akin to the ISD simply because it's meant to bring down ships of equal or greater size to its own. I'm not sure if I understand exactly why there's a deadlock here, but that's my two cents. I say it just makes sense to keep the stats akin to an ISD and maybe say that it has a smaller fighter complement or none at all, to account for the lack of a hangar (I'm not so sure that it is a hangar in that ROTJ picure, since those ships were built with whatever model kits they could find and it could very well just be something else).
Man, Myth, Administrative God. Also plays a mean kazoo.
Jace Varitek: In Northern California we just have gangs of vigilante interior decorators.
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| Jace_Varitek | Date: Saturday, 28 Jan 2012, 6:29 PM | Message # 21 |
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Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| APPROVED.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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