|
Gemmell Requestn and sundry
| |
| Gemmell | Date: Thursday, 11 Oct 2012, 12:40 PM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 116
Status: Offline
| Well, old Gemmell is a meddler, a tinkerer.
What I think would suit him down to the ground would be a role where he is able to fiddle with the levers of the Imperial Military and rather take the work off good old Sate Pestage's hands when it comes to Imperial Military Oversight; conveniently keeping Sate Pestage's hands clean of any signatures or communications which might be considered undesirable in the wrong light.
So.
I'd like Gemmell to retain his position on the Ruling Council as an Adviser to his Majesty while taking on the additional role of President of the Imperial Military Oversight Commission. The role would in practice be pretty minimal except assuring the events go as the canon says, being one of the lead supporters of the Death Star wing of the Ruling Council I suspect he'd be an excellent plant.
I also suspect it'd be good to start seeing the Imperial Military go more overtly oppressive, and this provides the perfect example to give the kind of "do whatever you think is necessary" orders that lead to the Empire being such a wonderful place to live by the time the rebellion rolls around. He'd also begin to have filed increasingly extravagant Imperial Naval funding bills in the Imperial Senate, increasing the level of taxation required and starting to rankle those "Tea Party" type dissenters at the level of spending.
Also.
I'd like to have a new chatacter, Major George Cumberdale-McBastard (it's a name), who is head of the appropriations Sub-Committee and doles out contracts for the Empire for tender and picks the best ones. I think this'd be an interesting role as there are so many Defense Contractors to wine and dine him.
Lord Gregorious Gemmell
Advisor to the Emperor
Imperial Ruling Council
|
| |
| |
| Jaron | Date: Sunday, 14 Oct 2012, 6:27 PM | Message # 2 |
 Major general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 252
Status: Offline
| Management will have to meet on this. Standby.
Jaron Park
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
(pre-April 2012 posts) (post-April 2012 posts)
Pre-2009 Archives
|
| |
| |
| Jace_Varitek | Date: Tuesday, 16 Oct 2012, 8:32 PM | Message # 3 |
 Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| Whether the Imperial Military Oversight Commission (IMOC henceforth, for simplicity) is a Senate body isn't clear. It might be or might not, but it seems to me that putting it in the hands of an Imperial bureaucrat rather than a Senator or former Senator character is a bit of a wasted opportunity for RP. That is, IMOC is essentially a non-entity if it's simply another organ of the Empire. I do vote specifically to DENY having IMOC propose bills to the Senate if it isn't a Senate body and has non-Senators among its members.
I do APPROVE of this McBastard character, but I vote to DENY him, or any individual non-management-played character being responsible for awarding Imperial contracts, or be an Imperial character on a Senate committee (for the above reasons). Perhaps he's the one who makes the formal recommendation, hence his opinion is a freighted one? That would be in-keeping with the wining-and-dining theme.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
|
| |
| |
| Senator_Ordan | Date: Wednesday, 17 Oct 2012, 2:17 AM | Message # 4 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| The IMOC is explicitly not a Senate body, it "consisted of several Imperial officers and agents." - Lots of people play Imperial Officers and agents, it's a great chance to bring together a number of Imperial Characters (I think most of us have one) in a -non senatorial but never the less discussion based environment.
As for spending bills, "Have introduced" and "Introduce" are two very different things. There are many Imperial aligned Senators who would propose these bills themselves after being discretely suggested the bill is the will of the Emperor and IMOC, but the IMOC would be more involved in the day to day doctrine and efficiency of the Military than actual legislature itself.
I think you're absolutely wrong to consider the Imperial Military Oversight Commission a "wasted opportunity" just because it's not a Senatorial body to be honest, it creates (as mentioned) a forum for Imperial Military characters to be drawn together and emphasises the importance of these Imperial organs of state (which go largely un-played). Furthermore, it allows us to explore the subtle relationship between Senate and Empire by having Gemmell facilitate (through negotiations with loyalist senators) the proposal of Bills in the Empire's interest (naval funding etc). Rather than a wasted opportunity it offers to create a richer and more in-depth dynamic and an alternative to doing everything through the Senate (which after all is meant to be becoming sidelined in this period).
As for Imperial Contracts for McBastard - I am happy for him simply to be the one who decides the proposal that is given to the Bureaucracy for funding.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
|
| |
| |
| Jace_Varitek | Date: Wednesday, 17 Oct 2012, 8:34 AM | Message # 5 |
|
Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| It gratifies me to know that I'm so scarcely wrong as to require both a modifier and wholesale italicization when I am. But, strenuously emphasized or no, I am wrong. I'd read about IMOC some time ago and felt I didn't need to re-read it for this request; clearly I did need to re-read it, since it says not only that Imperial bureaucrats were present on the commission but also that it was a part of the "Imperial Service." Whether or not this is a wasted opportunity, however, remains to be seen. It depends on how many characters are brought to bear in it I suppose, and I'd assumed—incorrectly, perhaps—that there's a larger pool of characters to choose from in the Senate than in the "Imperial Service," which, as you noted, has struggled throughout the RP to be active.
But your point is persuasive and well-taken, and indeed there's no reason that Senators can't also serve on the commission. Senator Romodi is one such character who is a part of the "Imperial Service." I maintain, however, that it'd be better for a more independent character to be in charge of IMOC. Gemmell doesn't strike me as someone who's going to humor any discordant opinions or champion vigorous oversight of the military. But I don't oppose it as long as there's another typist on the commission who isn't me or Robert.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
|
| |
| |
| Jaron | Date: Thursday, 18 Oct 2012, 9:19 PM | Message # 6 |
|
Major general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 252
Status: Offline
| While I like the idea of getting the IMOC involved, and see that it would be a nice addition to the RP. I too, DENY, Gemmell's involvement. Someone more publicly impartial would be necessary for such a position; characters like North or Ordan or Oswaldt couldn't be touted as impartial enough either, despite being from the Senate. I do agree too that the IMOC could not directly propose legislation, but could be forwarded to various Senators for introduction. So, after all that, Jace and I are standing on the same ground.... I think...?
Jaron Park
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
(pre-April 2012 posts) (post-April 2012 posts)
Pre-2009 Archives
|
| |
| |
| Jace_Varitek | Date: Saturday, 20 Oct 2012, 8:29 AM | Message # 7 |
|
Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| Appropriately, yin and yang as we are, no. I didn't vote to deny Gemmell's chairmanship of IMOC, despite the tenor of my post. My last sentence is the operative one—"I don't oppose it as long as there's another typist on the commission who isn't me or Robert." I also accept his explanation that his phrase ("He'd also begin to have filed increasingly extravagant Imperial Naval funding bills") means to have someone else file those bills, not to file them himself. Thus concludes English professor Jace's lesson for today.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
|
| |
| |
| Gemmell | Date: Tuesday, 23 Oct 2012, 7:19 PM | Message # 8 |
|
Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 116
Status: Offline
| Just to clarify, as Jaron didn't seem sure before I told him.
A Commission by definition is appointed from above in a top-down derivation of Authority with their powers etc being specified from a "higher authority".
A Committee is a group of people and can even self-nominate, but in the context of a Senate Committee is one that handles a specific duty (rather than the general duties of the Senate). Committee membership enables members to develop specialized knowledge of the matters under their jurisdiction. As "little legislatures," committees monitor on-going governmental operations, identify issues suitable for legislative review, gather and evaluate information, and recommend courses of action to their parent body. This was traditional in the old republic as being nominated from the Legislature they were notionally more representative.
I'd like to run the Imperial Military Oversight Commission as what it says on the tin. I'd run it considerably differently to a Committee which allows the Chairman to make independent decisions, in this case I would have the following OOC rules (which maybe I should add to the request) below.
To Jaron:
Quote (Jaron) Someone more publicly impartial would be necessary for such a position; characters like North or Ordan or Oswaldt couldn't be touted as impartial enough either, despite being from the Senate.
Completely disagree; this is the Empire, not the US Senate, and it's a board of Military Officers and Bureaucrats, the only appropriate President is drawn from a direct-report to the Emperor. The Commission doesn't need to be able to propose Senate legislation directly, there are Oswaldts, Ordans, TuRots, etc aplenty in the Senate, I propose they just add their names to a list and each proposes legislation in turn - or can choose not to.
Impartiality isn't an issue on this, the Emperor's views and those of the Military are not likely to conflict, so I see no conflict of interest greater than the President of the US appointing ambassadors of his choice, or cabinet members etc. By now I think it's time to have more direct military influence, to decrease civilian power, to decrease legitimacy of government and increase tyranny - so we start to see the field of the Empire fertilized for the seeds of rebellion in years to come.
Because right now, the Empire isn't a proper tyrant in this RP - it's too conciliatory for this period, and I think the Commission will help change that. Let's start seeing out of control military spending, lets start to see a painful tax burden, lets start to see conscription, let's have people begin to fear the sight of Stormtroopers (especially in the Outer Rim Territories or as aliens).
There's the opportunity for Senators to get in there under my plans, or almost any character really.
Basically it's a discussion forum for Imperial Characters like the Senate is, but with a more military ethos. Anyone can join in the club, propose motions, have a say on policy and generally natter like people in the military love to do. There's the opportunity there for Senators to sit in as Observers and participate in debate that way
Imperial Military Oversight Commission Rules
Membership
A player may only ever cast one full vote in the Imperial Military Oversight Commission on a given motion.
This means they may hold two Affiliate Memberships or one full Membership, if a player plays an affiliate and does not wish to take a second, he can request via the board that management (as the Ruling Council) nominate them as Full members.
Any player may create a Member, Affiliate or Observer as long as the position is not presently occupied, this opens up the Committee to other RPers in a similar vein to the Senate and prevents any accusations that I might OOC bias my appointments.
Multiple Observerships may be held by a player, but these may never be granted the right to vote if they have already had another character do so. Observerships shall have a four day "cooling off period" before a Representative is allowed onto the floor (stopping you bringing in delegates to pack the debate as an attempt to influence the ballot).
Management shall be vigilant for those who abuse or bend these rules.
Full voting Membership shall be extended to the representative of the following groups (the right to propose, vote on and discuss motions to in the Commission)
The Imperial Throne (Chairman: Representing the public interest and that of the Empire in general)
The Imperial Navy (The Navy representative shall sit as Vice-Chairman)
The Imperial Army
The Corps of Stormtroopers
Imperial Intelligence Division
Affiliate Membership shall be extended to the following groups representatives (the right to propose or take the floor on any motion but with only half a vote)
Imperial Resource Procurement Bureau
Imperial Department of Military Research
CompForce
Observership shall be granted to representatives of the following (Right to observe the Commission unless otherwise declared by the President. The right to the floor if raising relevant points, one half vote to be granted at the discretion of the President who may also use his discretion to grant single-time exceptions to these Observers to be Temporary Associates for up to one day, further extensions requiring Imperial Assent)
Imperial Department of Munitions Resource Development
Imperial Biological Weapons Division
Imperial Surgical Corps
Imperial Survey Corps
Imperial Diplomatic Corps
Imperial Exploration Corps
Imperial Taxation Bureau
The Imperial Senate Planetary Defense Committee
Any other Imperial Governmental body with the assent of the Ruling Council
The Imperial Senate Liaison Forum
The Senate Liason Forum shall be a voluntary group of Imperial Loyalist Senators who shall sit in on all hearings and be given a copy of proceedings.
It is expected that members shall take turns in order of Seniority to propose motions stamped "Suggested statute" and shall support it in the form written. Senators who feel unavailable or unwilling to take their turn in proposing such measures are free to withdraw from the Forum without penalty, but may not rejoin it once they have done so.
The Senator who proposes a Senatorial bill on behalf of the Committee and by extension the Empire, should take time to consult with the original organization who proposed the suggested statute to assure the act proposed meets the requirements involved.
Motions
Motions may be proposed by Affiliates or Members and will be discussed by the Commission in as much length as they require.
Motions shall pass or fail by a simple majority (the remainder of un-played seats will be assumed to have voted for the winner of each vote) to try and demonstrate uniformity.
Motions should always be written in as much detail as possible, and should not be irrelevant. The Chair may strike motions off the list if they are irrelevant or not representative of the Empire's goals (to reduce the potential for inter-service rivalry being carried across.
Motions take three forms, "Suggestion", "Directive" (or Regulation) or "Suggested Statute". Motions should identify in their title or Subtitle which they are.
Suggestions are non legally-binding advice given to Imperial Organisations or to the Public pertaining to any issue regarding the Imperial Military. Suggestion implementation is to be by and at the discretion of the group or individuals it is seeking to suggest an idea to, or to their superiors. The "target" of a suggestion must be clearly stated in the Motion.
e.g.
Suggesting the Navy continue to buy more ISDs in future.
A Directive is a definitive position on any relevant topic to be taken a a statement of direction for "Imperial Policy" but not to constitute binding policy in itself without ratification by the Ruling Council. A Directive may legislate directly on Imperial Military matters. Where the motion is under 50 million credits in expense to the Taxpayer and if it considered a matter of relevance to the services in question etc. A Directive shall be referred to as a "Regulation" if it has an operative clause of some variety that mandates any action happen or be caused to happen. The Imperial Senate may legislate above or repeal Regulations with a simple majority.
e.g.
Refuting the reports issued by the Alsakan media in the event they capture evidence of Military atrocities.
Endorsing reports by Senate Committees. Endorsing Motions in the Imperial Senate.
The Imperial Military Uniform Code (the power to approve or deny)
Commissioning a 1,000,000 Credit research project into a new material for Imperial Military Officers.
A Suggested Statute is a draft law in itself. Loyalist Senators are expected to take heed of these proposals but aren't legally or morally obliged to propose them or vote in favour of them, unless they have undertaken freely to do so.
e.g.
The Armour Repainting Act
- Blah
Powers
To propose and discuss any motion for the betterment of his Majesty's forces.
To make suggestions via motions to any branch or official of the Imperial State.
To call or subpoena witnesses under oath.
To requisition funds not more than fifty million credits from General Taxation for a given motion.
To analyse ongoing operations where appropriate.
To investigate allegations of misconduct and refer them to the Justice System.
To hold the Commission's hearings in public or private, or deny non-Members access temporarily or indefinitely.
Commission Debate Rules
The President is "Primus inter Pares" or First among equals. The President is expected to be apolitical and not stoke or support inter-service rivalries, instead voicing reason as a proxy of the Ruling Council, who are appointed by the Emperor who was appointed by the people of the Empire. The first duty of the President is to the Emperor, then to the upkeep, reputation and ethos of the Imperial Military, acting as discretely as possible in order to avoid scandal.
The President may (in exceptional circumstances) fine any Officer or Imperial Employee within his Commission room up to one weeks renumeration if conduct is wantonly inappropriate.
The President may strike debates off the record or require that they are not published or recorded in the event that confidentiality or classified information may be breached.
The President shall have the right to censure, suspend or expel Members, Affiliates or anyone else present on an individual basis, their organizations shall not be barred under any circumstances but shall have the right to immediately replace any Representative. In the event of suspension or censure, this will usually be their deputy appointee. Direct discipline is to be a last resort, Commission members superior officer will be informed by the President if he believes conduct merits discipline and request they proceed discretely within the service branch to avoid scandal.
Freedom of Patriotic Speech is extended to all Members, Affiliates and Observers. Language should be parliamentary, but due consideration will be extended.
Four days shall be the minimum period for debate and voting. All votes must be made alongside a declaration of why the branch and delegate believe their position as expressed in their vote yes or no is for the good of the Military. There shall be no abstentions.
If a majority of the Full and Affiliate Members (player controlled) have voted, then the motion may be closed early.
Imperial Veto
The Ruling Council may veto any motion on the agenda or already voted on, for any reason or no reason, at any time, with retrospective effect.
Lord Gregorious Gemmell
Advisor to the Emperor
Imperial Ruling Council
Message edited by Gemmell - Tuesday, 23 Oct 2012, 7:20 PM |
| |
| |
| Jace_Varitek | Date: Monday, 29 Oct 2012, 8:37 PM | Message # 9 |
|
Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| I was okay with this, but I'm going to need time to review this document. I'll try to get to it tomorrow.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
|
| |
| |
| Jace_Varitek | Date: Tuesday, 30 Oct 2012, 12:21 PM | Message # 10 |
|
Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| Okay, I still APPROVE of this, but there's something worth noting in advance of it becoming a point of confusion.
Quote (Gemmell) Any player may create a Member, Affiliate or Observer as long as the position is not presently occupied
Quote (Gemmell) Full voting Membership shall be extended to the representative of the following groups (the right to propose, vote on and discuss motions to in the Commission)
The Imperial Throne (Chairman: Representing the public interest and that of the Empire in general)
The Imperial Navy (The Navy representative shall sit as Vice-Chairman)
The Imperial Army
The Corps of Stormtroopers
Imperial Intelligence Division
-etc.-
In keeping with our policy on this, no one can claim to be the leader or representative of these Imperial organizations without some sort of consultation or consent of management. We can't have a Wild West-type situation where players represent their own opinions as the opinions of the Imperial Army, Stormtrooper Corps, etc. with impunity, especially while in debate with other players.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
|
| |
| |
| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 30 Oct 2012, 2:31 PM | Message # 11 |
|
Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| Honestly, I don't think there's going to be many controversial issues. Imperial Military Branch policy is pretty well laid out = more walkers, more star destroyers, more men = policy.
These people (as I envison it) wouldn't be the top brass of the Navy or other service, they'd be either serial desk jockeys who had smarmed their way to the top of the Staff Corps or washed up officers either too old or unsuitable for command to be given one, but with friends or influence to dictate they be given a sinecure for their service in the past.
Thus if they say something which is clearly a fuckup, then the top brass from the service can just withdraw either the representative or issue a statement rejecting their assertion of the representative's position. Largely, this is a talking shop to facilitate inter-branch communication with a false veneer of transparency - despite the fact many hearings will be held in private.
Naturally, abuses (acting in the interest of another character) is already prohibited.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
|
| |
| |
| Jace_Varitek | Date: Monday, 12 Nov 2012, 7:52 PM | Message # 12 |
|
Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| Well, it's been a month and I continue to approve of it.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
|
| |
| |
| Jace_Varitek | Date: Tuesday, 27 Nov 2012, 7:41 PM | Message # 13 |
|
Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| Any flexibility here, J. Hombre? We could use the activity from this and there hasn't seemed to be any countermanding interest in IMOC since a month ago when this was requested.
Or, Karth, your views?
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
|
| |
| |
| Jaron | Date: Tuesday, 27 Nov 2012, 7:51 PM | Message # 14 |
|
Major general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 252
Status: Offline
| While I don't like such an extensive OOC ruleset here, I understand its need. I am now an APPROVE.
Jaron Park
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
(pre-April 2012 posts) (post-April 2012 posts)
Pre-2009 Archives
|
| |
| |
| Jace_Varitek | Date: Tuesday, 27 Nov 2012, 9:50 PM | Message # 15 |
|
Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| We can probably call this APPROVED.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
|
| |
| |
|
