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The Vanguard Confederacy Request
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| Adaaran | Date: Tuesday, 13 Nov 2012, 10:27 PM | Message # 1 |
 Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 20
Status: Offline
| Here today I would like to request of the management of this site the following proposals for an organization, or rather an independent faction to hereby be known as the 'Vanguard Confederacy.' Therefore I would like to begin the request with the simple and easiest points.
Firstly I would like that the following worlds and their systems be added to the Chopani Sector. Of course if it should be needed (as it more than likely will be.) I would gladly come up with proper write ups for the systems and their worlds.
- The Hybyli System
- The Corislia System
- The Naidsha System
- The Kashbrindra System
Secondly, I would like to establish that the above systems, including The Antmuel System are to be the first five systems established as the first member systems, as well as being the initial foundation of the Vanguard Confederacy.
Thirdly, I would like to request the following vessels in order to establish the initial power of the Vanguard Confederacy.
The Core Vanguard Fleet
The Confederacy Local Militia Fleets
** The above request for the Militia fleets represent the vessels that would be present within the Hybyli, Corislia, Naidsha, Kashbrindra, and Antmuel systems. This means in total there would be (15) Gozanti Cruisers and (60) Z-95 Headhunters spread out as the above request shows in each of the five systems.
There is a final note that I would like to add to this request. The Core Vanguard Fleet is the military force that the Confederacy keeps standing in both times of peace and in times of war. The Confederacy local militia fleets are usually not maintained as a standing force and are often docked during times of peace with their only actions being defensive duties when so required or as the situation may call for. These Local Militia Fleets are often called upon by the Core Fleet only during times of war when all vessels are needed. This means that these Local Militia Fleets would not be seen outside of the Vanguard Confederacy's borders.
I thank you for the time and effort that the management team will put into looking over my request and I will answer any questions brought up should the answers be able to help in the decision that will be made by the staff.
Adaaran the Unfeathered
President of the Dominion Federation Council
Supreme Commander of the Dominion
Message edited by Adaaran - Monday, 19 Nov 2012, 10:30 PM |
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| Jaron | Date: Wednesday, 21 Nov 2012, 5:27 PM | Message # 2 |
 Major general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 252
Status: Offline
| To begin, I will be asking a series of question on this request before rendering any judgement, and/or making requests upon various points. Please understand, that this is due to the massive size of this request.
Firstly, I need to have write-ups of these custom systems with as much detail as possible, with your fleshing out of the Antmuel System included. Secondly, out of curiosity, what is the significance of the "Vanguard" name? Thirdly, please proceed to justify such a massive military force.
Jaron Park
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
(pre-April 2012 posts) (post-April 2012 posts)
Pre-2009 Archives
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| Adaaran | Date: Thursday, 22 Nov 2012, 0:42 AM | Message # 3 |
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Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 20
Status: Offline
| // Hybyli System \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
Suns: (1) Hybyli
Orbits: (6)
Miakoda
Hybyli
Leishole
- Taigi
- Badru
- Iamar
- Ismitta
- Diane
- Migina
- Mimiteh
- Chander
Uthest
Asteroids:
- Otash Asteroid Belt
- Irtead Asteroid Belt
// Corislia \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
Suns: (2)
Orbits: (9)
- Onetuete
- Tecka
- Felle
- Corislia
- Antuejoff
- Shene
- Inasuo
- Ooljee
- Lewanna
- Artemis
- Astennu
- Anahid
- Oungehe
- Evupuo
Asteroid Belts
// Naidsha System \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
Suns: (1) Naidsha
Orbits: (3)
- Rarta
- Umnas
- Naidsha
- Magena
- Shiva
- Jana
- Selia
- Muraco
- Shashi
- Badr al Din
- Jyotish
- Anahid
- Mimiteh
- Hilel
- Kynthia
// Kashbrindra System \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
Suns: (1) Kashbrindra
Orbits: (5)
- Metgos
- Tuntau
- Kashbrindra
- Treagir
- Casbin
Asteroid Belts:
- Gagarin Asteroid Belt
- Vamshi Asteroid Belt
- Matar Asteroid Belt
// Antmuel System \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
Suns: (1) Antmuel
Orbits: (7)
- Antmuel I
- Antmuel II
- Antmuel III
- Antmuel IV
- Antmuel V
- Antmuel VI
- Antmuel VII
// Olantis \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Hybyli
Orbital Position: 1
Rotation Period: 10 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 94 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Molten Lakes
- Molten Rivers
- Volcanoes
// Seff \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Hybyli
Orbital Position: 2
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Dreve \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Hybyli
Orbital Position: 3
Moons: 1 (Uninhabitable)
Rotational Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 257 Local Days
Class: Terrestrial, Arid Rock
Atmosphere: Breathable; Oxygen Mask suggested
Climate: Arid
Water: Underground Springs
Primary Terrain:
- Rock Cliffs
- Sand Dunes/Oceans
- Mountains
- Plateaus
- Caves
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Population: 10,000
Demonym: Dreveians
Imports:
- Foodstuffs
- Mining Equipment
Exports:
Cities: Drevish (Mining Settlement)
// Hybyli \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Hybyli System
Orbital Position: 4
Moons: 2 (Uninhabitable)
Rotation Period: 28 Standard Hours
Orbital Period: 397 Standard Days
Class: Terrestrial
Atmosphere: Breathable, Type I Oxygen Mix
Climate: Frigid
Surface Water: 60%
Frozen Surface Water: 40%
Primary Terrain:
- Snow
- Ice
- Glaciers
- Mountains
- Frigid Oceans
- Frozen Water - Streams, Lakes, Ponds, Rivers
- Tundra
- Pine Forests
Immigrated Species:
- Humans
- Aqualish
- Talz
- Talid
- Other
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Government: Confederacy
Population: 1 Billion
- 93% Human
- 2% Aqualish
- 1% Talz
- 1% Talid
- 3% Other
Demonym: Hybylian
Major Imports:
Major Exports:
- Luxury Goods
- Ivory
- Raw Materials
Major Cities:
- Solitude - Capital City
- Rimhull
- Sjobal
- Solvjord
// Leishole \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Hybyli
Orbital Position: 5
Moons: 8 (1 Inhabitable; Ismitta)
Rotational Period: 36 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 401 Days
Class: Gas Giant
// Ismitta \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Hybyli
Rotational Period: 24 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 365 Local Days
Class: Terrestrial
Atmosphere: Type I Breathable; Oxygen Mix
Climate: Humid
Surface Water: 70%
Primary Terrain:
- Hills
- Jungles
- Forests
- Marshes
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Population: 500,000
Demonym: Leishole
Imports:
Exports:
Cities:
- Dellshore (Capital)
- Shadowmoss
- Aspen Hill
// Uthest \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Hybyli
Orbital Position: 6
Rotational Period: 53 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 573 Local Days
Class: Frozen Planetoid
Atmosphere: None
Primary Terrain:
- Frozen Mountains
- Glaciers
// Onetuete \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia
Orbital Position: 1
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Tecka \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia
Orbital Position: 2
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Felle \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia System
Orbital Position: 3
Rotation Period: 24 Standard Hours
Orbital Period: 365 Standard Days
Class: Terrestrial
Atmosphere: Breathable, Type I Oxygen Mix
Climate: Humid
Surface Water: 60%
Primary Terrain:
- Swamps
- Marshlands
- Mangrove Forests
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Government: Council of Elders
Population: 25,000
Demonym: Felleians
Major Imports:
- Drugs
- Foodstuffs
- Technology
Major Exports:
Major Cities:
// Corislia \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia System
Orbital Position: 4
Moons: 1 (Uninhabitable)
Rotation Period: 28 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 397 Local Days
Class: Terrestrial
Atmosphere: Breathable, Type I Oxygen Mix
Climate: Temprate
Surface Water: 50%
Primary Terrain:
- Rolling Plains
- Mountains
- Pine Forests
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Government: Timocracy
Population: 90 Million
Demonym: Corislian
Major Imports:
- Raw Materials
- Luxury Goods
Major Exports:
Major Cities:
- Corslia - (Capital)
- Corsalla
// Antuejoff \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia System
Orbital Position: 5
Rotation Period: 20 Standard Hours
Orbital Period: 397 Standard Days
Class: Terrestrial
Atmosphere: Breathable, Type I Oxygen Mix
Climate: Arid
Surface Water: 30%
Primary Terrain:
- Steppe lands
- Dry Grasslands
- Small Oasis Springs
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Government: Tribal
Population: 15,000
Demonym: Antuejians
Major Imports:
Major Exports:
Major Cities:
- Highstar - (Starport)
- Temporary Nomadic Settlements
// Shene \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia System
Orbital Position: 6
Rotation Period: 28 Standard Hours
Orbital Period: 397 Standard Days
Class: Barren Rock
Atmosphere: No Atmosphere
Climate: Frigid
Primary Terrain:
// Inasuo \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia System
Orbital Position: 7
Moons: 5 (Uninhabitable) - Artemis (Scientific Research Facility)
Rotation Period: Unknown
Orbital Period: 400 Local Days
Class: Gas Giant
Atmosphere: Breathable, Type I Oxygen Mix (Upper Atmosphere)
Climate: Cool
Primary Terrain:
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Government: Corporatocracy
Population: 750,000
Demonym: Inasuonian
Major Imports:
- Gas Harvesting Equipment
- Foodstuffs
- Other Essential Resources
Major Exports:
- Power Cells
- Military Grade Power Cells
Major Cities:
- Skyhaven - (Capital harvesting facility)
- Platform 11
- Platform 8
- Platform 1
// Oungehe \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Corislia
Orbital Position: 8
Rotational Period: 53 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 573 Local Days
Class: Frozen Planetoid
Atmosphere: None
Primary Terrain:
- Frozen Mountains
- Glaciers
// Evupuo \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Corislia
Orbital Position: 9
Rotational Period: 53 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 573 Local Days
Class: Frozen Planetoid
Atmosphere: None
Primary Terrain:
- Frozen Mountains
- Glaciers
// Rarta \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Naidsha
Orbital Position: 1
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Umnas \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Naidsha
Orbital Position: 2
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Naidsha \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia System
Orbital Position: 3
Moons: 12 (Uninhabitable)
- Magena - (Scientific Research Facility)
- Muraco - (Scientific Research Facility)
- Jyotish - (Archeological Dig Site)
- Hilel - (Restricted Vanguard Confederacy Facility)
- Kynthia - (Restricted Vanguard Confederacy Facility)
Rotation Period: Unknown
Orbital Period: 400 Local Days
Class: Gas Giant
Atmosphere: Breathable, Type I Oxygen Mix (Upper Atmosphere)
Climate: Cool
Primary Terrain:
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Government: Corporatocracy
Population: 750,000
Demonym: Inasuonian
Major Imports:
- Gas Harvesting Equipment
- Foodstuffs
- Other Essential Resources
Major Exports:
- Power Cells
- Military Grade Power Cells
Major Cities:
- Platform 12 - (Capital harvesting facility)
- Platform 7
- Platform 9
- Platform 3
// Metgos \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Kashbrindra
Orbital Position: 1
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Tuntau \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Kashbrindra
Orbital Position: 2
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Kashbrindra \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Corislia System
Orbital Position: 3
Rotation Period: 24 Standard Hours
Orbital Period: 365 Standard Days
Class: Terrestrial
Atmosphere: Breathable, Type I Oxygen Mix
Climate: Temprate
Surface Water: 70%
Primary Terrain:
- Rolling Plains
- Lakes
- Gardens
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Government: Democracy
Population: 135 Million
Demonym: Kashbrindras
Major Imports:
- Raw Materials
- Electronics
Major Exports:
Major Cities:
- Brindra - (Capital City)
- Altand
- Orbital Facility 9 - (Orbital Shipyard)
// Treagir \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Kashbrindra System
Orbital Position: 4
Rotation Period: 24 Standard Hours
Orbital Period: 365 Standard Days
Class: Industrial
Atmosphere: Toxic, Breathing Apparatus Required
Climate: Hazardous
Surface Water: None
Primary Terrain:
- Industrial Factories
- Industrial Junkyards
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Government: Plutocracy
Population: 5 Million
Demonym: Treagarians
Major Imports:
- Drugs
- Foodstuffs
- Medical Equipment
Major Exports:
- Raw Materials
- Salvage
- Industrial Equipment
- Industrial Chemicals
Major Cities:
- Arllius - (Capital City)
- Industrial Sector 19
- Industrial Sector 27
// Casbin \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Corislia
Orbital Position: 5
Rotational Period: 53 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 573 Local Days
Class: Frozen Planetoid
Atmosphere: None
Primary Terrain:
- Frozen Mountains
- Glaciers
// Antmuel I \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Antmuel
Orbital Position: 1
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Antmuel II \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Antmuel
Orbital Position: 2
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
// Antmuel III \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani Sector
System: Antmuel
Orbital Position: 3
Rotation Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 103 Local Days
Class: Molten Rock
Atmosphere: Carbon Dioxide, Uninhabitable
Primary Terrain:
- Mountains
- Volcanoes
- Molten Oceans
//Antmuel IV \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Antmuel
Orbital Position: 4
Rotational Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 257 Local Days
Class: Terrestrial, Arid Rock
Atmosphere: Breathable; Oxygen Mask suggested
Climate: Arid
Water: Desert Oasis
Primary Terrain:
- Rock Cliffs
- Sand Dunes/Oceans
- Mountains
- Plateaus
- Caves
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Population: 50,000
Demonym: Antmuellians
Imports:
- Foodstuffs
- Mining Equipment
Exports:
Cities: Hope (Mining Settlement)
// Antmuel V \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Antmuel
Orbital Position: 5
Rotational Period: 16 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 257 Local Days
Class: Terrestrial, Arid Rock
Atmosphere: Breathable; Oxygen Mask suggested
Climate: Arid
Water: Desert Springs
Primary Terrain:
- Rock Cliffs
- Sand Dunes/Oceans
- Mountains
- Plateaus
- Caves
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Population: 50,000
Demonym: Antmuellians
Imports:
- Foodstuffs
- Mining Equipment
Exports:
Cities: Serenity (Mining Settlement)
// Antmuel VI \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Hybyli
Orbital Position: 6
Rotational Period: 23 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 372 Local Days
Class: Terrestrial
Atmosphere: Breathable; Type I Oxygen Mix
Climate: Temperate
Surface Water: 25%
Primary Terrain:
Immigrated Species:
Primary Language: Galactic Basic Standard
Population: 950,000
Demonym: Antmuellians
Imports:
- Foodstuffs
- Excavation Equipment
- Archeological Equipment
- Various Resources
Exports:
- Archeological Information
- Cultural Information
- Limited Raw Materials
Cities:
- Antmuel - (Capital)
- Digtown
- Fort Ironhide
// Antmuel VII \\
Region: Outer Rim Territories
Sector: Chopani
System: Antmuel
Orbital Position: 7
Rotational Period: 53 Local Hours
Orbital Period: 573 Local Days
Class: Frozen Planetoid
Atmosphere: None
Primary Terrain:
- Frozen Mountains
- Glaciers
The name derives from the traditional division of a medieval army into three battles or wards; the Van, the Main (or Middle) and the Rear. The term Vanguard originates with the medieval French avant-garde, i.e. the ward in front. The vanguard would lead the line of march and would deploy first on the field of battle, either in front of the other wards or to the right if they stood in line. Thus the Vanguard Confederacy takes it's same name from this reasoning. The naming however for the Vanguard Confederacy has its roots in the years before the Clone Wars. As the Separatist were becoming more and more outspoken and the fact of war continued to appear and was more and more immanent, the Vanguard formed for a small core group of mercenaries seeking to protect their homes from the Confederacy of Independent Systems. This core force would name itself as such, Vanguard, as a means to reflect that they were essentially the "Front Ward" or in their eyes the "First Guard" for their home systems, essentially taking it upon themselves to act against hostile forces, as a means to either delay for time until the Republic could appear or attempt to capture CIS vessels and turn them against their enemy. With the Vanguard securing more of the neighboring systems along with their own home system of Hybyli, it would be the Vanguard that would begin to bring these systems together into the Vanguard Confederacy, which would in turn take its name from the mercenary force that brought the systems together.
Now to proceed to justify the military force. The Core Vanguard Fleet is essentially just that, the Core military force of the Vanguard Confederacy. This Core fleet is maintained in both peace time and war time as the primary security force for the Vanguard Confederacy systems, thus it would always be at the standing strength requested above. These in turn would be the only vessels of the Vanguard Confederacy that would more than likely be seen either in the system or acting outside of the system as a situation requires.
Now then, in comparison, the Local Militia fleets on the other hand, are just that Militia fleets. These vessels would not be seen outside of the Vanguard Confederacy space. These vessels being set as Militia vessels would be at all times grounded on their respected planets. As such, the systems themselves rely on the Core fleet for security of their systems. These militia fleets in turn are only called upon during a time of conflict when they are called up by the Core fleet to supplement their force when needed. Also if the Core Fleet is otherwise engaged or underway, these militia fleets would be called upon for security as a situation calls for it. At all other times however, these vessels and their personnel would be grounded.
Adaaran the Unfeathered
President of the Dominion Federation Council
Supreme Commander of the Dominion
Message edited by Adaaran - Thursday, 22 Nov 2012, 12:41 PM |
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| Rath-Deschain | Date: Thursday, 22 Nov 2012, 12:28 PM | Message # 4 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 857
Status: Offline
| Jace, I know I'm not a manager and usually not allowed to post on requests. Originally I was going to send you this assessment I've made over messenger (largely because I have so much time to look through requests), but I'm ending up posting it here largely out of boredom.
Let me first say that this is a very detailed request Adaaran, and I commend you on the time and effort it took to put into it. I could find very few flaws and I know how difficult it can be to make one system, let alone so many. That being said, here is my brief critique:
Seeing that the Chopani Sector and its included systems are considered the 'Vanguard Confederacy,' even being a part of the Empire, especially seeing as they are a system located in the Outer Rim, I do not see the Empire allowing them access to a trio of Victory-class Star Destroyers. While I understand the need for a carrier-type vessel to offset the the pair of non-fighter carrying Acclamator-II assault ships, I would suggest instead a trio of Dreadnaught-class heavy cruisers; these vessels are more affordable and likely cheaper to maintain despite the crew size. Furthermore, each Dreadnaught can be easily refit (within the request) to carry a squadron of fighters. While Adaaran wanted three Victory-classes with Eta-2 squadrons (bringing the total to six squadrons), it's still possible to give him all six but only lose transport capacity for three squadrons. Other than this, his fleet request should be fine.
Now, on to the planetary items.
Having reviewed his list of planets and systems written in, I've come to the following conclusion(s):
Being that this is an Outer Rim sector, I can understand his planet of Hybyli having a population of one billion. This is an acceptable amount considering what we know and even taking into account that certain worlds among the Outer Rim can indeed be heavily populated. That being said, his world of Corislia with a population of five billion seems rather high by most standards. If it were my call, I'd ask for a reduction to no more than one billion for non-canonical worlds that fall within the Outer Rim. Just a suggestion though. Other than this, his request seems well thought-out.
Rath Deschain
High Inquisitor
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| Jace_Varitek | Date: Saturday, 24 Nov 2012, 6:40 PM | Message # 5 |
 Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| So I remain supportive of this in principle, as I indicated in Messenger. However, having gone over the request itself, I do foresee some tweaks that might be in order. The main thing, which I didn't realize when we discussed it in Messenger, is that these are original planets and systems. I assumed these were canon systems and, well, we know what assuming does. Thing is, we've long and consistently denied original planets. True, some exceptions are made, but not multiple systems worth of planets.
I see the reason for this, however; if we were to use one word to describe the Chopani Sector, it'd be "empty." But I'd rather see you choose a Sector that has planets in it than add planets to a Sector without any. The Chopani Sector, in the canon, is empty—I don't want to change that unless it's really necessary, and I'm not convinced it's necessary. It was suggested to me that you might locate this Confederacy in the Veragi Sector instead, which has the benefit of a lot of planet stubs.
Another point of contention is how the Empire is going to view this Confederacy. The Empire not exactly having had a good recent experience with confederacies, I can see it being tolerant of this one if A.) it pre-dates the Empire, B.) it's subordinate to the Sector Moff, and C.) it's absolutely limited to its current territory. New planets joining this Confederacy would be out of the question, I'm afraid. I don't see the Empire allowing it to exist unless the Sector Moff decides it'd be more trouble than it's worth to mess with it.
Part of that, of course, which I'm not sure your request mentions, but which we discussed in Messenger, is that this Confederacy would act as a sort of unofficial, mercenary organ of Imperial interests. Good idea, provided the Empire or management determines what "Imperial interests" are. I do foresee problems, however; namely, since the Confederacy is acting of its own accord, if it attacks someone the Empire's not going to shield it from retaliation. Additionally, as a part of the Empire it's presumably subject to the same laws on the use of force as all Imperial worlds are. Hence I don't see the advantage of a quasi-independent Confederacy over, say, another Imperial world instead (an Imperial world with some colony worlds, maybe, if you're set on having multiple planets).
Not that your idea is unworkable. I just foresee more problems cropping up with it as opposed to a more conventional approach. Or even, to be honest, a more Cronese Mandate-style approach. As you can see, I think it's premature to be addressing the fleet numbers yet, so I'm going to hold off to hear your thoughts on all this first.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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| Adaaran | Date: Saturday, 24 Nov 2012, 10:17 PM | Message # 6 |
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Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 20
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| Okay, the problem that I have with a "Cronese Mandate-style" of approach, is just what it says in its name. The word "Mandate" immediately implies that this grouping of space was mandated for their use, i.e. "The Emperor Mandated the creation of the Cronese Mandate." Which means that are any time it is subjected to being changed at the whim of the Imperial Senate or the Emperor. So if this group is supposed to be able to act as an Independent force for the Empire's interest, then it would make no sense that it would be a Mandate, because then it would not be independent in its function as presented. I've already thought on the changes that need to be made, and while yes originally the thinking was for it to be an Independent Military group with backing from specific interest within the Empire, which would provide a means that would not trace back to these interest, it evolved as it was needed to in order to establish the group on a stronger footing.
Now with that said I already have the changes in mind, which will consist of the following. The location of the Vanguard will be changed to the Veragi Sector, provided that they are given control of the Sector. While there would be an Imperial Moff established, just as it says there is one for the Gree Enclave, for all intents and purposes the Veragi Sector would be under the direct control of the Vanguard while being under the watchful eye of the Imperial Moff of the Sector (Whom I hope would be controlled by the Staff of AGW as a means to ensure a clear chain of what would be determined as "Imperial Interests" to be acted upon by the Vanguard.)
This would in turn mean that the following systems, the Cilare System, Kogan System, Nharl System, Plesstil System, Revyia System, and the Trassitan System would fall under the stewardship of the Vanguard, while the Veragi System itself would remain under the control of the Sector Moff . In turn, while the original thought was to form a Confederacy (which after thinking over the concerns) would prove problematic due to the Clone Wars, and provide more problems for the Vanguard than would solve. The Government thus would be changed, from a Confederacy, to a Federation (Yes I do notice that there is not much a difference between the two, however for this purpose there is more than enough of a large difference between the two governments.) This means that rather than there being a Congress as initially planned under the Confederacy set up, there would instead be a Council (still lead by Adaaran) however this council would be made up of a representative from each of the above listed systems. This means that the Vanguard would essentially be lead by Adaaran, with a council of Six members beneath him. The original write up of the Articles of Confederacy (which I sent to you to read) will be rewritten and renamed as simply 'The Vanguard Articles' which would outline basically the following.
- 'The Vanguard Federation' Predates the Empire, though only so much as the beginning of the Separatist Crisis, i.e. roughly 33-32BBY
- 'The Vanguard Federation' while being subordinate to the Sector Moff, remains an Independent force in the outer rim, securing it's "more trouble than worth" status
- 'The Vanguard Federation' would be limited to its current territory, however it would be permitted to take on neighboring worlds as "security clients." meaning that these "clients" are not members of the Federation, however they enjoy the security provided by the Federation.
- 'The Vanguard Federation' being an Independent, unofficial, mercenary organ of Imperial interest, would act in order to what is deemed "Imperial Interest" and thus being Independent would need only to follow the basic rules of war already established by the Imperial Senate, though would not be limited to its scope of not attacking Imperial member worlds.
- 'The Vanguard Federation' is permitted a representative within the Imperial Senate
- 'The Vanguard Federation' is willing to work with the Empire, due in part to the events caused by the Republic on Equanus which in turn provides for more of a reason that the Empire would allow them to remain Independent as they would hold no allegiance to the Old Republic, nor did they willingly harbor or hold any form of friendship or allegiance to the CIS.
Now with all that said, I would like to add an addition to the request, namely that I be allowed to introduce a Carrier, (2) Cruiser, and (3) Starfighter designs. I believe that if 'The Vanguard Federation' is to be an Independent client state to the Empire established before the Empire, it would make sense that they would in turn have developed their own style of vessels to establish the base line of defense and security for their member systems.
Adaaran the Unfeathered
President of the Dominion Federation Council
Supreme Commander of the Dominion
Message edited by Adaaran - Sunday, 25 Nov 2012, 5:13 PM |
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| Jace_Varitek | Date: Tuesday, 27 Nov 2012, 9:19 PM | Message # 7 |
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Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
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| Quote Okay, the problem that I have with a "Cronese Mandate-style" of approach, is just what it says in its name. The word "Mandate" immediately implies that this grouping of space was mandated for their use, i.e. "The Emperor Mandated the creation of the Cronese Mandate." Which means that are any time it is subjected to being changed at the whim of the Imperial Senate or the Emperor. So if this group is supposed to be able to act as an Independent force for the Empire's interest, then it would make no sense that it would be a Mandate, because then it would not be independent in its function as presented.
Sound reasoning. I don't disagree.
Quote The location of the Vanguard will be changed to the Veragi Sector, provided that they are given control of the Sector. While there would be an Imperial Moff established, just as it says there is one for the Gree Enclave, for all intents and purposes the Veragi Sector would be under the direct control of the Vanguard while being under the watchful eye of the Imperial Moff of the Sector
I think we came to a satisfactory arrangement on this in Messenger; that the Federation will comprise the Cilare, Kogan, Nharl, Plesstil, Revyia, and Trassitan systems, under the jurisdiction of the Veragi sector Moff but the administration of your Federation. The Veragi system would be the sector seat and then, of course, there's the Gree Enclave which remains under the jurisdiction of another Moff.
Quote (Whom I hope would be controlled by the Staff of AGW as a means to ensure a clear chain of what would be determined as "Imperial Interests" to be acted upon by the Vanguard.)
I concur. Also, to address a point that Jamie raised about this federation being "more trouble than it's worth" (since the phrase was mine); that more than a half-dozen Imperial-aligned satellite states come to mind is a fairly good argument for the existence of at least one more. That it's Imperial-aligned is convenient, certainly, and hence "more trouble than it's worth" to place these mere 6 systems under Imperial administration when A.) they're presumably paying the standard tribute to the Veragi sector Moff, if not even more (the Moff might demand a greater tribute as a condition of their autonomy), and B.) the federation is administered on Imperial principles and acts in the Imperial interest. Prudence dictates it be allowed to enjoy its airs of autonomy, particularly since this is a rather exploitative arrangement and, moreover, all parties to it are aware that this autonomy could be revoked at any time.
I don't see much interest in it from Imperial Center, certainly. The Veragi sector is literally as "out" as the Outer Rim gets.
Quote 'The Vanguard Federation' Predates the Empire, though only so much as the beginning of the Separatist Crisis, i.e. roughly 33-32 BBY
'The Vanguard Federation' while being subordinate to the Sector Moff, remains an Independent force in the outer rim, securing it's "more trouble than worth" status
Supposing it seceded from the Republic for all the reasons that the Empire came to replace the Republic, I see no problem with this. Essentially, the New Order "before it was cool." If a space station can declare itself neutral in the Clone Wars and remain so into the Imperial era, I think an Imperial-aligned federation can plausibly remain quasi-independent. It's plausible enough, anyway, to err on the side of the player.
Quote 'The Vanguard Federation' would be limited to its current territory, however it would be permitted to take on neighboring worlds as "security clients." meaning that these "clients" are not members of the Federation, however they enjoy the security provided by the Federation.
It was my reckoning that it'd be limited to its current 6 systems because the entire arrangement rather depends on the federation being non-threatening. Notwithstanding its fealty to the Empire, the moment this federation expands its military influence is the moment the Empire becomes wary of it. There are, conceivably, some ways around this; the Empire could sell you planets (subject to RP and probably Senate approval), or you could conquer non-Imperial planets, of which there are quite a few. I just don't see any other Moff tolerating one of his planets having a "security agreement" with a foreign power outside of his sector, nor abide its ships in his space.
Quote 'The Vanguard Federation' being an Independent, unofficial, mercenary organ of Imperial interest, would act in order to what is deemed "Imperial Interest" and thus being Independent would need only to follow the basic rules of war already established by the Imperial Senate, though would not be limited to its scope of not attacking Imperial member worlds.
Indeed, just be aware the Empire (probably) won't come to its defense in the event of retaliation. Not overtly, at least, or officially.
Quote 'The Vanguard Federation' is permitted a representative within the Imperial Senate
I don't have a problem with this, although I think the technical term would be Legate or Ambassador. I invite Jaron to clarify this point for me, since he's more familiar with these distinctions than I am.
I still mean to hold off on ships until we have the basic premise approved. Maybe we should consider ship numbers in the separate request that's up now, and deal only with the premise here? I do have one final note on that point; I share Jaron's apprehension over the name "Vanguard," but I'm more interested in the second part. With the Gree Enclave situated in the same sector, might this federation be named something similar? "Administration," "Dominion," "Freehold," or "Combine" perhaps? Or something as simple as "The Vanguard Systems" (or whatever might replace "Vanguard" if you decide to).
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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| Adaaran | Date: Tuesday, 27 Nov 2012, 9:55 PM | Message # 8 |
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Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 20
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| After reading this I do believe that we've come to a point in which all parties involved can come to a final agreement that would see this group brought up. Thus I only have a few last points to add in, though nothing really to change or add to the request, just some final thoughts.
Quote (Jace_Varitek) It was my reckoning that it'd be limited to its current 6 systems because the entire arrangement rather depends on the federation being non-threatening. Notwithstanding its fealty to the Empire, the moment this federation expands its military influence is the moment the Empire becomes wary of it. There are, conceivably, some ways around this; the Empire could sell you planets (subject to RP and probably Senate approval), or you could conquer non-Imperial planets, of which there are quite a few. I just don't see any other Moff tolerating one of his planets having a "security agreement" with a foreign power outside of his sector, nor abide its ships in his space.
After reading this I can agree, that yes the military strength of the faction would remain within the current 6 systems, and I could see how a Moff of another Sector would have a problem with the faction having a security agreement with a world in their Sector. I can also agree that the faction would be capable to expand their territory either through purchasing planets (of course through rp and probably senate approval) or taking non-Imperial planets.
Quote (Jace_Varitek) Indeed, just be aware the Empire (probably) won't come to its defense in the event of retaliation. Not overtly, at least, or officially.
Understood
Quote (Jace_Varitek) I don't have a problem with this, although I think the technical term would be Legate or Ambassador. I invite Jaron to clarify this point for me, since he's more familiar with these distinctions than I am.
Thinking on it more, I believe that the proper term would be Ambassador. So the faction would be entitled to have an Ambassador (non-voting, unless decided later that a vote would be required.) This would be more of a position where the person would just be there to give the view of the faction in the Senate and to ensure that nothing overtly unfair (like a bill or law that would overtly affect the faction space.)
Quote (Jace_Varitek) I still mean to hold off on ships until we have the basic premise approved. Maybe we should consider ship numbers in the separate request that's up now, and deal only with the premise here? I do have one final note on that point; I share Jaron's apprehension over the name "Vanguard," but I'm more interested in the second part. With the Gree Enclave situated in the same sector, might this federation be named something similar? "Administration," "Dominion," "Freehold," or "Combine" perhaps? Or something as simple as "The Vanguard Systems" (or whatever might replace "Vanguard" if you decide to).
I can understand the apprehension over the naming. At this moment I was thinking more something along the line of. "The Federal Systems" or "The Systems Dominion" maybe even "The Freehold Dominion"
Adaaran the Unfeathered
President of the Dominion Federation Council
Supreme Commander of the Dominion
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| Jace_Varitek | Date: Thursday, 29 Nov 2012, 10:15 PM | Message # 9 |
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Generalissimo
Group: Administrators
Messages: 2245
Status: Offline
| Well I think we've come to a mutually-satisfactory arrangement I can APPROVE of. Jaron, s’il vous plaît?
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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| Jaron | Date: Saturday, 01 Dec 2012, 6:49 PM | Message # 10 |
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Major general
Group: Administrators
Messages: 252
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| I APPROVE as well.
With that, pending a name change, we can call this request APPROVED.
Jaron Park
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
(pre-April 2012 posts) (post-April 2012 posts)
Pre-2009 Archives
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