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The Fowlkes-Crion Force User Court Process Act
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Tuesday, 20 Jul 2010, 9:33 AM | Message # 1 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
Status: Offline
| FOWLKES-CRION FORCE USER COURT PROCESS ACT Senator Crion and I have been working together on a proposal that would clear the New Republic Court's process on putting a Force user on the trial. The proposed Law is designed to protect the citizens of the New Republic from the Force users who abuse their power and to bring justice that is much needed. It would be split into two, the first part is focused on the Sith and the Dark Jedi. We propose the following: If a Sith or a Dark Jedi violates any of the New Republic laws on any of the member worlds, the following perpetrator will be prosecuted by the New Republic Courts. The planetary government may wish to prosecute as well if the following perpetrator violates a separate law that only applies to the said planet. Then the planetary government may wish to request that the perpetrator be brought to trail, and it will be held before the New Republic Courts. However, the jurisdiction ultimately belongs to the New Republic. If a Sith or a Dark Jedi violates any of the New Republic laws toward a citizen, the following perpetrator will be prosecuted by the New Republic Courts. The planetary government may wish to prosecute as well if the following perpetrator violates a separate law that only applies to the said planet. Then the planetary government may wish to request that the perpetrator be brought to trail, and it will be held before the New Republic Courts. However, the jurisdiction ultimately belongs to the New Republic. If a Sith or a Dark Jedi violates any of the New Republic laws on a member world with the protected status, the following perpetrator will be prosecuted by the New Republic Diplomatic Crops and be brought to the New Republic Courts. If a Sith or a Dark Jedi commits a law-breaking action on an allied world but no action was taken against a New Republic citizen, the New Republic will do nothing as it is not in their jurisdiction unless the mentioned allied world has requested our involvement in subduing the following perpetrator. Then the planetary government will decide whether to keep the following perpetrator for their own trial or to hand the person over to the New Republic to be prosecuted by the New Republic Courts. If the supposed planetary government decides on the latter, then they will also get to decide if they want to prosecute on their own trial before handing over. If a Sith or a Dark Jedi commits a law-breaking action on an independent world but no action was taken against a citizen, the New Republic will do nothing unless the supposed planetary government requests of our involvement in subduing the following perpetrator. Then the supposed planetary government will decide whether to keep the following perpetrator for their own trial or to hand the person over to the New Republic to be prosecuted by the New Republic Courts. If the supposed planetary government decides on the latter, then they will also get to decide if they want to prosecute on their own trial before handing over. If a Sith or a Dark Jedi commits a law-breaking action against our military bases or embassies in the neutral territories, the New Republic will have the right to demand that the following perpetrator be hand over. Then the following perpetrator will be prosecuted by the New Republic Courts. The second part is focused on the rogue/fallen Jedi, which may be little different than the Sith and the Dark Jedi. We propose the following: If a rogue/fallen Jedi violates any of the New Republic laws on any of the member worlds or toward a citizen, the Jedi Commissions Act will be in effect. If a rogue/fallen Jedi commits a law-breaking action against an allied world but no action was taken against a New Republic citizen, the supposed planetary government may request the New Republic’s help in subduing the following perpetrator. The supposed planetary government will get to decide whether to prosecute with their own trial. If so, then the following perpetrator will be prosecuted under trial before handing over the following perpetrator to the Jedi Council for further consequences. However, if the Jedi Council feels that a trial process is necessary, then they may request to enforce the Jedi Commissions Act. If a rogue/fallen Jedi commits a law-breaking action on an independent world but no actions was taken against a New Republic citizen, the supposed planetary government may request the New Republic’s help in subduing the following perpetrator. The supposed planetary government will get to decide whether to prosecute with their own trial. If so, then the following perpetrator will be prosecuted under trial before handing over the following perpetrator to the Jedi Council for further consequences. However, if the Jedi Council feels that a trial process is necessary, then they may request to enforce the Jedi Commissions Act. If a rogue/fallen Jedi commits a law-breaking action against any of our military bases or embassies in the neutral territories, then the following perpetrator must be handed over by the supposed planetary government. Then the Jedi Commissions Act will be in effect. The following perpetrator must receive a fair trial. The following perpetrator will be allowed to use their own legal counsel, if they indeed do have one. If the following perpetrator cannot afford one, the New Republic Courts or the Jedi Council will be able to provide a lawyer or a Jedi that is certified in law. This is something we believe would help the New Republic courts a lot in detaining a Force user that commits a crime. I would like to credit Jedi Commission Act and The Diplomacy & Recognition Act for having a hand in our proposal.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
Message edited by Tremaine_Fowlkes - Tuesday, 20 Jul 2010, 9:37 AM |
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Tuesday, 20 Jul 2010, 11:35 AM | Message # 2 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| With respect to Senator Fowlkes and Senator Crion, they do not seem to have corrected the problem with their previous proposal regarding Force sensitive individuals. Namely, what is a "Jedi," what is a "Dark Jedi," what is a "Rogue/Fallen Jedi," and what is a "Sith"? Your proposal does not define these terms. This is the letter of the law, gentlemen, and a specific definition is essential. For example, is a "Jedi" a student at the Academy? What about a former student? What about a survivor of the Jedi Purge? What's the difference between a "Dark," "Rogue," and "Fallen" Jedi? What is a "Sith"? Who decides who is and isn't a "Sith"? We already know that Senator Crion's definitions—those who practice the "light" and "dark" sides of the Force—are woefully inadequate. The "light" and "dark" sides of the Force are artificial constructs. They are the religious beliefs of the Jedi and the Sith, and they have no place in secular New Republic law. In fact, I question why it is we're making distinctions in the law between Jedi, Sith, and so on. Is it not enough that to commit a crime is against the law, no matter who does it? With all due respect to the Senators, the proposal doesn't make a compelling case why any of this is necessary.
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| Artemis_Vanden | Date: Wednesday, 21 Jul 2010, 1:14 AM | Message # 3 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 302
Status: Offline
| I agree, reluctantly, with Senator Cambrist. I had two concerns on the prior "Anti-Sith Bill," namely, that the bill proposed to ban a religious belief, and that it left the term "Sith" undefined. I'm pleased to see that this measure is more modest than the last one, and dispenses with my first concern about a ban on religious beliefs. But as Senator Cambrist notes, the term "Sith" isn't specifically defined as it must be, and nor are "Jedi," "Dark Jedi," etc. When making distinctions in the law, the distinction must be made clearly and concisely. I hope that Senator Fowlkes and Senator Crion, who have worked long and hard on this legislation, will propose an amendment that will rectify this. But until that time, I am compelled to vote against.
Artemis Vanden
Representative of the Naboo
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Wednesday, 21 Jul 2010, 10:09 PM | Message # 4 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| If I may, Senator Vanden, I have had a moment to peruse the Jedi Commissions Act of a decade ago for any precedent that might be useful to us, especially since it is mentioned several times in the proposal before us. Unfortunately, it is not much more specific than the current proposal is with regard to how it defines the troublesome terms "Jedi," "Sith," and so on. The Jedi Commissions Act refers to "students of the Jedi Academy and other individuals formally determined to be 'Sith,' 'Dark Jedi,' and the like." It does not specify how an individual is "formally determined" to be any of these things, however. It's no wonder that legal scholars, and myself, universally agree that that the Jedi Commissions Act is unconstitutional and will declared such if and when it is ever brought to court. I've also glanced at the Diplomacy and Recognition Act, which is also mentioned in the current proposal. I would direct the Senate's attention to Article II, Section II, and I quote, "the New Republic may use force against 'unaligned' worlds, or unions of worlds or persons, Provided; such force is prudent and necessary for the New Republic's security interests, commercial interests, or for the purposes of law enforcement or the protection or extraction of its citizens." This is a clear statement that the Republic may pursue dangerous criminals, like Jedi and Sith, to unaligned worlds if it is in our "security interests" to do so. Which, of course, it is. Sith and deranged Jedi are dangerous to everyone. The planet Carida would agree, I'm sure, if it existed today. These are fugitives that must be followed to the farthest reaches of the galaxy, Senators, if it is necessary to stop their rampages against innocent, defenseless beings. However, the current proposal before us commands that the New Republic "do nothing" to apprehend Jedi or Sith who commit crimes on an unaligned planet. Similar language is found throughout the proposal. This is, in fact, a weakening of the New Republic's existing authority under the Diplomacy and Recognition Act. The fact that the Republic already has broad authority to pursue these dangerous individuals leads me to question, again, why the current proposal is necessary. I will concede that some clarification of which courts will prosecute these individuals if they are arrested on unaligned, neutral, and other worlds outside of the Republic is necessary. But I'm not convinced that this proposal is the proper means to that end. I vote against.
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Wednesday, 21 Jul 2010, 11:01 PM | Message # 5 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 250
Status: Offline
| Well, well! Callooh! Callay! It seems that Senator Fowlkes needs the help of his good old friend, Joe Oswaldt. For you see, Senator, you need a definition and I have it. What you're looking for is this: "Force-sensitive individuals of the Jedi and Sith Orders, and former and dissident members thereof, who possess extraordinary abilities and the potential to do catastrophic harm to the public, to persons, and property, and are proficient in the application of these abilities for these purposes." If it sounds familiar, that's because it is from a decree that I announced recently regarding Sith and Jedi on Eriadu. If you use this definition without my permission, I'll scream plagiarism and sue you for all you're worth. Which I suspect is not much. However I would be happy to let you use it in this proposal of yours, old friend, on one condition. I want the following language included: "Force-sensitive individuals of the Jedi and Sith Orders, and former and dissident members thereof, who possess extraordinary abilities and the potential to do catastrophic harm to the public, to persons, and property, and are proficient in the application of these abilities for these purposes, will hereby be regarded at all times as 'persons of interest' by the New Republic and its worlds and shall be subject to questioning, to searches of the individual's person and effects, and to detention for the purposes of 1.) preventing catastrophic harm to the public, to persons, or property, 2.) preventing harm to the individual in question, or 3.) otherwise preventing disunion and disorder on New Republic worlds. These individuals may and must be detained for as long as is deemed necessary for the above purposes, and may be subject to the use of tranquilizers, Ysalamiri, electrical current, and other means of restraint or coercion." Or, if this is not satisfactory to you, Senator Fowlkes, there is one other arrangement that you, I, and your wife might discuss in private.
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Thursday, 22 Jul 2010, 6:38 PM | Message # 6 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 891
Status: Offline
| Aside from the fact that the financial stability of Senator Fowlkes is none of your business, and the childish nature of your threat to sue, Senator Oswaldt..... *Sigh* Your definition, Senator, is very good and well written and would be a good addition to Senator Fowlkes' proposal. As usual, however, it is very biased toward your point of view. I would expect no less from you, quite honestly. If it is a meeting that you want, Senator, since apparently you have issue with discussing it here, please feel free to contact my assistant and he would be more than happy to arrange something.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Thursday, 22 Jul 2010, 9:47 PM | Message # 7 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
Status: Offline
| Once again, I am not surprised by your attitude toward this, Governor Oswaldt. If you believe that I would proceed and use the definition without your permission, then you are dead wrong. Your definition is not worth my time, especially if it's going to be used into my and Senator Crion's amendment. Your proposal is suggesting that we, the New Republic, take extreme actions against the Force users. There's a HUGE problem with that. The New Republic doesn't have and doesn't support death penalties. You are implying that the New Republic isn't capable of holding a rogue Force user inside a prison long-term. The purpose of our proposal is to help clear up the difficulties that would be brought into the legal process. It is not to have the New Republic establish death penalties. Even for a Force user, it is too extreme of an action to be taken. Once again, I wouldn't dream of using your definition because, like Senator Thanatos said, it is too biased toward your point of view to be added as an amendment. In addition to that, I'm completely opposed to death penalties. Perhaps it is something the Imperial Remnant would do, but this is the New Republic and you would do well to remember that. Therefore, you suing me would be a completely waste of your time. However, since you seems to have another option and wanted to discuss it over with both myself and Senator Thanatos in private, we would be happy to set up a meeting with you.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Friday, 23 Jul 2010, 0:35 AM | Message # 8 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| That may not be necessary, Senators. The wording that Governor Oswaldt refers to is from a decree that he issued on Eriadu. In other words, a law. I remind the Governor, as well as Senator Fowlkes and Senator Thanatos, that a law is not the property of its author, and thus its author's permission is not required to use its wording in other laws. That is to say, Senator Fowlkes can use it if he wants. I do not point this out because I support this proposal—indeed, I do not—but rather to spare us all from the Governor's amendment and, in particular, to spare Mr. and Miss. Fowlkes from having to barter with him to be rid of it. Apologies, Governor Oswaldt, but your amendment is repugnant even to me. *Having done this good deed, Cambrist sat down heavily as if this rare moment of humanity had exhausted him.*
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| Mical_de_Crion | Date: Friday, 23 Jul 2010, 11:20 AM | Message # 9 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 151
Status: Offline
| I was unfortunately distracted by other efforts, and not able to contribute as much to this legislation as I wished. Thankfully I had some time on my hands lately, and should my co-author allow me, I would like to present a revised version of this legislation.
Mical Léo de Crion
Director, All Stars Burn As One Foundation
Chairman, Urban Youth College Fund
Owner, Château Hiver Rivière
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Friday, 23 Jul 2010, 11:28 AM | Message # 10 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
Status: Offline
| Senator Crion, you have the floor. You may present a revised version of this proposal. I trust you will be able to meet all the unanswered questions the Senate has imposed upon this proposal.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Mical_de_Crion | Date: Saturday, 24 Jul 2010, 7:41 PM | Message # 11 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 151
Status: Offline
| Here are my revisions to the legislation, including a new section on limitations of New Republic involvement in Force User Affairs, which also assigns responsibility to the New Jedi Order in dealing with threatening Force Users, as well as a section on definitions, finally establishing legal weight to the terms and hopefully clarifying the differences. The Fowlkes-Crion Force User Court Process Act PART I
Jurisdiction and Enforcement Should a Sith or a Dark Jedi violate New Republic law on a member planet, the suspect will be prosecuted by the Court of Justice. The planetary government(s) of the involved world(s) have the authority to prosecute the suspect should the suspect violate local laws, following a Republic trial, and under the supervision of the Court of Justice. Should a Sith or a Dark Jedi violate New Republic law toward a legal New Republic citizen, the suspect will be prosecuted by the Court of Justice. The planetary government(s) of the involved world(s) have the authority to prosecute the suspect should the suspect violate local laws, following a Republic trial, and under the supervision of the Court of Justice. Should a Sith or a Dark Jedi violate New Republic law on a New Republic affiliate planet, the suspect will be arrested by the Republican Guard under the supervision of the New Republic Diplomatic Corps and tried by the Court of Justice. The planetary government(s) of the involved world(s) have the authority to prosecute the suspect should the suspect violate local laws, following a Republic trial, and under the supervision of the Court of Justice. Should a Sith or a Dark Jedi violate the law on an allied planet but no action was taken against a New Republic citizen, the New Republic will have no jurisdiction in the matter, unless otherwise requested of by the allied planet. Should the allied government requests New Republic assistance, such will come from the Republican Guard unless the matter is of such a serious nature as to involve the Combined Defense Forces of the New Republic. Should the New Republic take custody of the suspect, they will be prosecuted b the Court of Justice. The planetary government(s) of the involved world(s) have the authority to prosecute the suspect before the Republic trial. Should a Sith or a Dark Jedi violate the law on an independent/neutral world but no action was taken against a citizen, the New Republic will have no jurisdiction in the matter, unless recognized by the New Republic Diplomatic Corps through the Diplomacy and Recognitions Act and assistance is requested. Should the independent/neutral government requests New Republic assistance, such will come from the Republican Guard unless the matter is of such a serious nature as to involve the Combined Defense Forces of the New Republic. Should the New Republic take custody of the suspect, they will be prosecuted b the Court of Justice. The planetary government(s) of the involved world(s) have the authority to prosecute the suspect before the Republic trial. Should a Sith or a Dark Jedi violate the law against a military bases or embassy in the neutral territories, the New Republic holds the right, and is expected, to demand that the suspect be handed over into New Republic custody. When the suspect is in Republic custody, they will be prosecuted by the Court of Justice. PART II
Rogue/Fallen/Grey Jedi Should a Rogue/Fallen/Grey Jedi violate New Republic law on any member planet or toward a legal citizen, the Jedi Commissions Act will be in effect. Should a Rogue/Fallen/Grey Jedi violate the law against an allied world but no action was taken against a legal New Republic citizen, the New Republic will have no jurisdiction in the matter, unless otherwise requested of by the allied planet. Should the allied government requests New Republic assistance, such will come from the Republican Guard unless the matter is of such a serious nature as to involve the Combined Defense Forces of the New Republic. The planetary government(s) of the involved world(s) have the authority to prosecute the suspect. Following trial, the suspect will be handed over to the Jedi Council for further consequences. Should the Jedi Council feel it is necesarry, the Jedi Commissions Act will be invoked. The Chief of State also reserves this right should the Jedi Council choose to not take such action. Should a Rogue/Fallen/Grey Jedi violate the law on an independent/neutral world but no action was taken against a citizen, the New Republic will have no jurisdiction in the matter, unless recognized by the New Republic Diplomatic Corps through the Diplomacy and Recognitions Act and assistance is requested. Should the independent/neutral government requests New Republic assistance, such will come from the Republican Guard unless the matter is of such a serious nature as to involve the Combined Defense Forces of the New Republic. Should the New Republic take custody of the suspect, they will be prosecuted b the Court of Justice. The planetary government(s) of the involved world(s) have the authority to prosecute the suspect. Following trial, the suspect will be handed over to the Jedi Council for further consequences. Should the Jedi Council feel it is necesarry, the Jedi Commissions Act will be invoked. The Chief of State also reserves this right should the Jedi Council choose to not take such action. Should a Rogue/Fallen/Grey Jedi violate the law against a military bases or embassy in the neutral territories, the New Republic holds the right, and is expected, to demand that the suspect be handed over into New Republic custody. When the suspect is in Republic custody, the Jedi Commissions Act will be invoked.
The suspect, despite their extraordinary and exceptional status, still hold the same rights as any other criminal defendant. PART III
Limitations It is assumed that it is duty of the New Jedi Order to track down and eliminate threats presented by Sith, Dark Jedi, Grey Jedi, Rogue Jedi, and Fallen Jedi. The New Jedi Order may request assistance from the Combined Defense Forces of the New Republic, which may be provided as possible by executive decision. However, should a Sith, Dark Jedi, Grey Jedi, Rogue Jedi, and Fallen Jedi not violate any laws or present any threat as determined by the New Republic Intelligence Service, New Republic assistance will not be available. Alternatively, should the New Jedi Order, or any of its members, enter Sith Space, any threat that spawns from such entry, up to and including attacks upon Yavin IV unless the New Republic Yavin Orbital Fleet is also attacked, until presenting a threat to the New Republic as determined by the New Republic Intelligence Service, any requested New Republic assistance shall be immediatly denied. PART IV
Definitions Sith-A force user who operates outside the New Jedi Order, considered by the New Republic Intelligence Service as a threat to the New Republic and is determined to be following the teachings of the ancient Sith Empire. Dark Jedi-A force user who operates outside the New Jedi Order, and is considered by the New Republic Intelligence Service as a threat to the New Republic. Grey Jedi-A force user who operates outside the New Jedi Order, however is considered by the New Republic Intelligence Service to not be a threat to the New Republic. Rogue Jedi-A force user who operates outside the New Jedi Order. Fallen Jedi-A recently rogue Jedi, considered such for the first three months of their leaving of the New Jedi Order. Jedi-A force user who is part of the New Jedi Order.
Mical Léo de Crion
Director, All Stars Burn As One Foundation
Chairman, Urban Youth College Fund
Owner, Château Hiver Rivière
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Saturday, 24 Jul 2010, 8:25 PM | Message # 12 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
Status: Offline
| Senator Crion's amendment is much better, and I am fully in support of it. Thus I vote in favor of the amendment.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Saturday, 24 Jul 2010, 10:58 PM | Message # 13 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Senator Crion, your amendments are an improvement, perhaps, but they still do not address the fundamental flaws in this unconscionable legislation. You would still have the New Republic do nothing—or, in your words, "have no jurisdiction"—as deranged Jedi or Sith perpetrate the wholesale slaughter of defenseless beings on unaligned worlds. I remind you, again, that the New Republic currently has the authority to pursue and detain these individuals on unaligned worlds under the existing legislation, the Diplomacy and Recognition Act, that you referred to yourself only a moment ago. You are proposing, Sir, to deny this authority and compel the Republic to watch as hundreds or potentially thousands of innocent beings are gruesomely dismembered, electrocuted, choked to death, or worse. Also, I don't believe it is wise to tie the Chief of State's hands—or feathers, rather—by requiring him to deploy the Republican Guard to pursue or detain these individuals. Do not misunderstand me, they should be pursued and detained, but the Republican Guard is by no means the only organization that can or always should do so. There are also the New Republic Security Forces, New Republic Intelligence, New Republic Special Forces, and others. The Chief of State should have the latitude to use whichever of these is the most appropriate to a particular situation, which may not always be the Republican Guard. In other words, the Republic's options should not be limited in this way. The "limitations" segment of the amendments are, I believe, very dangerous. I am wary of declaring it the "duty" of the Jedi Academy to bring its deranged students to justice when, it must be emphasized, the Jedi have no law enforcement authority whatsoever. If anything, the roles here should be reversed—the Jedi should assist the Republic in pursuing and detaining these individuals. Surely, Senator Crion, you must agree with this. Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you proposing that the Republic should do nothing if the Jedi Academy is under attack? Even I find this to be rather diplomatically insensitive. Now, the definitions. The first thing that struck me is that many of them are unnecessary, especially the distinctions between "rogue," "fallen," and "grey" Jedi. Then I realized, however, that none of them are necessary. Why exactly are we making distinctions between Sith, Jedi, and the various permutations of Jedi? This, I believe, is the foremost flaw in the legislation. It should be directed at any Force sensitive individual who perpetrates these sorts of vile crimes, regardless of their religious beliefs or affiliations which, after all, have no bearing on the crime that is committed. Alas, Senators, you are approaching this legislation from the wrong direction. Governor Oswaldt's definition does seem to be the most appropriate. However, the language "of the Jedi and Sith Orders, and former and dissident members thereof" is redundant and should be removed.
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| Cul-utaanForte | Date: Wednesday, 28 Jul 2010, 11:28 AM | Message # 14 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 150
Status: Offline
| I thank Senators Fowlkes and Crion for this proposal, and for Senator Crion's efforts in making this a better bill. I would like to submit my vote In Favor of this legislation. It not only gives some legal definition, although that perhaps could use some tweaking, but sets a legal mandate that the Jedi deal with their rogue members so that the New Republic doesn't, and also discourages the Jedi from potentially bringing threats upon the galaxy. That I can definately stand along side of.
General Cul'utaan'forte
Forte's Legion
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| Ponc_Gavrisom | Date: Wednesday, 04 Aug 2010, 2:17 PM | Message # 15 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 271
Status: Offline
| Quite a lot of criticisms have been made of this measure, many of which, I feel, have merit. I am reluctant to close the voting until there is some indication from the authors of the bill whether or not they intend to amend it.
Ponc Gavrisom
Chief of State
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