The Mandalorian Assembly
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Marcus_Bralor | Date: Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:09 PM | Message # 1 |
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| Mandalore Bralor, you have made it known to Keldabe that you intend to implement a new "constitution." I feel that I must take it upon myself to similarly make it known that Clan Ordo will, more likely than not, oppose such a measure with every bit of vehemence its warriors have shown on the crimsoned battlefields. We all remember, for it has been only recently, that we Mandalorians have fought to free ourselves from our slavery to the Empire and its oppressive laws. Now, you would have us trade one form of slavery for another, to subordinate ourselves to some new oppressive law of our own design? I will say now, and will no doubt say again, that Clan Ordo will support no such document that does not protect its autonomy and its cultural heritage, and does not allow us our due in this Assembly; the right to nullify any such measures that shall trample upon our said autonomy and heritage. Consider the line respectfully drawn, Mandalore Bralor. My clan shall be willing to discuss and debate with you this matter of a "constitution," but our demands now lay before you. We believe that we must live not by the reign of law, but by our honor, our common decency, and the mandates of the resol'nare. Furthermore, I believe Onderon should be destroyed. Marcus Ordo General, Clan Ordo
Marcus Bralor Dar'alor be Dar'buir Akaata ("Former General of the Dar'buir Battalion")
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Zuthus_Bralor | Date: Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:11 PM | Message # 2 |
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| One who opposes nothing opposes the very air he breathes.
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Marcus_Bralor | Date: Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:14 PM | Message # 3 |
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| And he who speaks only in parable offers nothing but air. Come now, Bralor. Speak plainly to the Mandalorian people, or are you afraid to tell them your opinions, if any, on this matter? Clan Ordo has made it clear exactly where it stands, it's the least the Mand'alor can do. For what purpose do you now hide from your own opinions? What say you? Marcus Ordo General, Clan Ordo
Marcus Bralor Dar'alor be Dar'buir Akaata ("Former General of the Dar'buir Battalion")
Message edited by Marcus_Ordo - Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:15 PM |
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Zuthus_Bralor | Date: Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:18 PM | Message # 4 |
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| Very well. I must apologize if this seems incomplete but this is the rough draft in my head as to how we should conduct ourselves as an actual nations. Again I as Mandalore must apologize because right now I'm going to be throwing ideas out. For me the only time eloquent thought is provoked from me is when there is discussion and when there is war. I do hope that as Mandalore I best serve my people by bringing this to open forum so that we may come to a cause for which all can agree is just and none can which deny that it is at least satisfactory. I would like mention my goals for a constitution is for it to be flexibly interpreted so as to change with the times. The Mandalores and the senate. To me a loose system of checks and balances must be made so as to allow the most change in the least amount of time without absolute control. Any entity that takes absolute control would be consider Dar'Manda and thus loose citizenship. I would also like this constitution to define citizenship based on our traditions towards education. As Follows: To be Mando'ad one must be educated as such that meet the requirements of our nation. As such one must be enrolled in an institute of education that is follows the basic guidelines of education set out be the General government and under the guidance of a publicly recognized clan. The current guide line will be that youths must be enrolled from age 7-20 in military and general education. To be of voting age one must first pass the trails of verd'goten for which most of our youth will be recognized as warriors and can share in combat in an emergency. To be eligible for a seat in the senate one must either have proved themselves through combat (In the case of a youth brought to fight) Or must have passed schooling with the Final Trail at their last year (in this case 20) and must have served at least 4 years active duty in the military. Citizen must serve at least 2 years in the military to own property and vote. (The current requirements places males in the military until age 30 in which they become part of active reserves until age 56, and women until age 25 where they can choose to have children.)* To be Mandalore one must have been proved in combat. If times are of peace then the Mandalore must be proved in the battle circle at least five times and in simulated combat at least 5 times. These requirements will make sure our culture does not become corrupt with civilian type ideals where all remain timid and belly ache over how much they are not being served to when they do not serve their country. These are my current thoughts. I will deliberate more as i have more time to think. *(I have realized the folly in requiring women to serve until 25 as most of our people marry not much after the age of 13 including myself. So I'm willing to conceit that to this assembly)
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Marcus_Bralor | Date: Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:27 PM | Message # 5 |
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| If we must have a constitution (which I continue to oppose), then it must be a document that exists only to guarantee the self-determination of the clans and the welfare of the Mando'ade, and must not patronize them with the mandates of a supposed "general government." A Mandalorian's duty is to his clan, the Mand'alor, and the Mando'ade, not to some intractable government with its intractable laws. Our constitution (again, if we must have one) should have no business telling the clans how they must or mustn't raise and teach their young, telling them what qualifications their leaders must and mustn't have to speak for them in this Assembly, and telling them who is or isn't dar'manda. Clan Ordo's suggestions, which I'm sure will be widely supported by the Mando'ade, are as follows: Quote "The clans shall have absolute autonomy over their own affairs, as concerns the raising of armies, tributes and the distribution of property, the administration of justice, and the education of their young. They shall elect a clan leader of their choosing who will represent them in the Mandalorian Assembly in Keldabe, and shall also partake in the election of the Mand'alor." "All clans must abide the resol'nare, and pay (modest) tribute to Keldabe as according to the value of each clan's property. These funds shall provide for the welfare of the Mando'ade in times of need, the maintenance of armies and defenses, and the varied costs of war. All clans must also raise their own armies and rally them to the call of the Mand'alor." "Any clan that abides the resol'nare, owns property, pays tribute to Keldabe, and maintains its own armies shall be recognized as a 'legitimate' clan. Any individual swearing allegiance to said clans and principles, and residing outside of Mandalore for no more than three contiguous years, shall be recognized as a 'citizen.'" "The clans shall gather in the Mandalorian Assembly only whence such a meeting is called for and seconded (i.e. it shall not meet on a regular basis). Each of the most prominent clans (Ordo, Skirata, Bralor, Fett, etc) shall have the power to veto acts of the Assembly." "Any Mandalorian citizen may speak before the Assembly, but only its members may vote. The Mand'alor must abide the decisions of the Assembly unless they conflict with the resol'nare or the Mand'alor's ability to conduct war. Mandalore shall enter into no agreement with any foreign world or faction that would, in any way, subordinate the sovereignty of Mandalore or its clans." "Those in a condition of obliged labor or servitude (including criminals and enemies of Mandalore as captured on the field of battle) shall not be considered citizens. However, such individuals must be given eventual opportunity to redeem or absolve themselves of crime or wrongdoing, and to duly extricate themselves of their condition." This should be sufficient for any supposed constitution, but of course I will welcome the Mand'alor's opinions. Furthermore, I believe Onderon should be destroyed. Marcus Ordo General, Clan Ordo
Marcus Bralor Dar'alor be Dar'buir Akaata ("Former General of the Dar'buir Battalion")
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Zuthus_Bralor | Date: Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:37 PM | Message # 6 |
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| What you have proposed I not only agree mostly with but I was about to propose myself. I will break down what I agree with and that which I do not. Quote "They shall elect a clan leader of their choosing who will represent them in the Mandalorian Assembly in Keldabe, and shall also partake in the election of the Mand'alor." The position of Mand'alor should not be an officially elect position ever. In this place tradition overrides all reform for this. Mand'alor has long been a position either handed down by the Mand'alor themselves or elect from the best warriors. Any official democratic process to the selection of Mandalore without ANY requirements of this position would allow for the corruption of our culture and the dying of our way of life into the corruption which faces the Republic AND the Empire in which their warriors are not honored like we honor ours. And given that you mention that only the Resol'nare should be the law for which one must conduct oneself to become Mando'ad then any flipping Cyar'tomade of ours can make their own clan and join us even though they are as fat and as useful as a Hutt. The loose standard of the Resol'nare leaves our culture open for corruption as it once did during the Mandalorian Wars. Ordo I have great respect for you and the Clan for which you serve. Why I remember the tales of the great Canderous Ordo bringing the Clan spirit back to the Mandalorian people. But without standards for the population our society can crumble and fall apart. At least standards for our Mand'alor must exist for how are we to know that we become a shadow of our former self and that the credit creates a warrior rather then his deeds down the line. Granted having such loose standards can give us a huge pool of soldiers to work with. However I believe that we must have a standard training program in place for all Mando'ade so that we may look to being all Mando'ade as opposed to being to a clan. Absolute autonomy fosters no cooperation which before has distinguished us from all other cultures up until modern times where only a few clans such as Skirata, Ordo, and Bralor show a emphasis on cooperation. Instead what we see now is a corruption where many supposed Mando'ade go about hunting as they wish and preying on people for money with little regard for clan and no regard for Mandalore. As well as clans fighting against each other. Law and only strong law will bring these people in line and in order. But our law should reflect the Resol'nare as well as the as the tenets of Manda. Added (14 Mar 2009, 10:37 Pm) ---------------------------------------------
Quote "The clans shall gather in the Mandalorian Assembly only whence such a meeting is called for and seconded (i.e. it shall not meet on a regular basis). Each of the most prominent clans (Ordo, Skirata, Bralor, Fett, etc) shall have the power to veto acts of the Assembly." For this the Mand'alor should have sole power in. Clan dominance should not exist in law. For what if these clans change. (Granted the Bralor and Ordo clans haven't really change in the last 4,000 years, we are still some of the best) however the Assembly can override the Mandalore by a 2/3 Majority. I would like to add one step to the process. I believe that only citizens invited to speak in the assembly may speak. But I believe that the assembly is their to create laws and vote on laws. However the law must first go through the Mand'alor's approval or indifference then it is passed to the people to vote on whether it is to become actual law. This step will make sure that no one clan has power over the other since clans have different population and therefore the larger groups may be unfavorable represented to the smaller clans who would have the same vote as the larger clans do. This is why I prefer the one planet one vote policy. To think a clan of 24 could have one vote on the assembly over a clan of 200,000 that would be atrocious. I believe though we need a better system which will reflect the power of the clan based off of their population. That is all I have to say at this point. Other then the election of Mandalore and the one representative per clan this proposal is fit enough to act as a constitution. If Ordo has any suggestions that would fulfill my desire as Mand'alor then I would like to here from them and only then will I support this proposal. I would like to add that it is a nice touch that each clan must maintain an army.
Message edited by Zuthus_Bralor - Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:36 PM |
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Marcus_Bralor | Date: Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:45 PM | Message # 7 |
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| I am glad that we do not disagree on much of these ideas, Mand'alor. I also agree with most of your suggestions, but I must remain strongly opposed to some, namely as regards the marginalization of clan autonomy and identity. I believe that adherence to the clan is not only one of the commandments of the resol'nare, but also the true strength and unity of the otherwise disparate Mandalorian people. I agree that we must have some guidelines, but understand that to impose intractable law upon the clans, I believe, would be disaster. But first, I do not oppose your suggestions about the selection of the Mand'alor. My suggestion of an election was an attempt to absolve Mandalore of some of the infighting of the past over whom shall succeed whom as Mand'alor, but nonetheless I believe your thoughts on the matter are wise and Clan Ordo will support them. But do not misunderstand me; to suggest an election is not to suggest that there shall be no standards upon the title. There can be both. Where we most disagree is on the matter of the Assembly. Firstly, I do not believe the Assembly should ever have the power to overrule the decisions of the Mand'alor even by majority. Clan Ordo is traditional in this respect, that the rule of the Mand'alor is to be honored. I also disagree that citizens must be invited to speak, for this is the forum for which the people of Mandalore are to be heard. I say yes, let us speak for them as we have been chosen to do so, but let them speak also for themselves if they so choose. However, I will not oppose that suggestion. If it is to pass, then let it be known that Clan Ordo shall invite to the Assembly any man of Mandalore who wishes to be heard. I do agree with you, however, on the matter of deciding laws through the vote of the Mando'ade. It is an inspired idea and I'm sure all in this Assembly shall and should support it. But I shall forever oppose any measure that will subordinate clan autonomy to the rule of intractable law. If the Mand'alor believes that the power to veto is unacceptable, then let the clans have the power to nullify acts of the Assembly as they apply only to them, should it be necessary to do so. The strength of the unity of the Mando'ade is founded upon the strength of its clans, their shared beliefs, and yes, their differences. Clan Ordo maintains that clan autonomy must be the basis of any governing document, insofar as such is possible and prudent. Remember Bralor, the clans might change as you say, but nowhere near as oft as does the Mand'alor. This is why the power of our government must be founded in the Mando'ade and the resol'nare, not the commandments of Keldabe. Marcus Ordo General, Clan Ordo
Marcus Bralor Dar'alor be Dar'buir Akaata ("Former General of the Dar'buir Battalion")
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Zuthus_Bralor | Date: Saturday, 14 Mar 2009, 9:47 PM | Message # 8 |
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| Your words are strong and I am glad that we can hammer these issues out into a solid agreement. Much as a blacksmith hammers the iron to shape and pound away any impurities. I see your concerns for Clan autonomy. So long as everyone follows the rule of Resol'nare then we would have at least a structured society. Granted I would prefer a stronger order. But the ability to raise war and lead I guess is good enough as Mand'alor. I hope you realize Ordo that you have done a good thing today and that was prevent the Mand'alor from ruling the people beyond the tenets of war. We will hold to tradition and enforce the old ways. I will retract my proposal and allow people to speak on the assembly but I will continue my support in make sure that the people have the right to vote on acts of the assembly. I must however continue to pursue public education. I have another suggestion and then perhaps I will be done with it. Since clans must maintain armies then perhaps those armies must go through a Mandalore sponsored military training for which they will be as mentioned before standard curriculum for which on top of that the clan may add their own training. As I have said before, a public education system would be headed by each clan to preserve clan Identity. But a military standard IS a necessity This suggestion would not impact the clans nearly as much because not all clan members must attend. I would still like to provide voluntary public education so that way we can produce a standard but only if the Clan is willing to accept it.
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