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Thoughts on Deralia
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| WarhawkMcCray | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 7:03 AM | Message # 1 |
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| Here are some thoughts I have on Deralia.
Firstly, it is stated to be a remote world. So far we have gone along with Deralia being a terrestrial world with a mix of industries, this seems semi plausible. We have all bought the fact that a huge number of Imperial Bureaucrats and Military Officers seem to be Deralian..
We have also bought that Deralia has a fleet which very few core worlds could match (amazing for a remote system) it has a planetary shield - an item which is meant to be ridiculously expensive and so only used by rich core worlds.
We have also bought the idea of a DP20 with a fighter rack with no penalty on other systems - despite the fact a fighter rack would likely compromise its shields as they would have to extend around the rack - equally its stated as a vessel which is very internally cramped with a passenger capacity of 0... one wonders
What I cannot abide though is that this obscure Outer Rim world only ever mentioned in the Canon as the imaginary birthplace of a Sith Lord.. would have an orbiting ecumenopolis.. I mean think of the mechanics, even if it is the size of the moon and has the population density of say.. Bogota (I imagine an ecumenopolis would have a higher population density than any IRL city) then it would have a population of 177,542,172,093 Thats 177.5 BILLION.. I think the idea of inventing ecumenopolises anywhere but where the canon mentions them is frankly silly.
By this logic the moon would have a vastly larger population than Deralia proper - Why isn't it the moon with the shield?
I hate to say it, but I think it is badly thought out and needs redacting..
Also... not mad keen on Deralia having a bigger fleet - Deralia should never be able to match up to a "proper" Core world militarily (Alsakan, Raltiir, Brentaal, Alsakan) or even one of the more productive shipyard worlds (Druckenwell, Sluis Van etc) it is meant to be an obscure rimward world, and realistically I don't see it having more than a few aging corvettes and fighters, with possibly a frigate.. not a massive Star Destroyer and state of the art escorts.. On requests we have always seen this notion of "not being able to attack and defend" and with Deralia having a planetary shield generator, essentially all of its vessels are free to attack - why does it need more?
I realize that Veritas may have been able to fiddle the purchases of the Venator and DP20s in the past so as to not pay for them fully, but I dont think its plausible at the moment for Deralia to gain yet more ships when it already has a planetary shield and Venator-class.
I think even the present representation of Deralia is rather out of touch with canon, and to continue with more ships and an ecumenopolis is to make a complete joke of any idea of adherence to the canon.
Alexander "Warhawk" McCray
Earl of Embaril
Thane of Brightdeen
Message edited by WarhawkMcCray - Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 7:07 AM |
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 7:31 AM | Message # 2 |
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| Technically speaking, Druckenwell and Sluis Van could be able to beef up a tad more; by 4 ABY they were considered fortress worlds.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| WarhawkMcCray | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 7:32 AM | Message # 3 |
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| Well absolutely. But that doesn't change the fact that Deralia is no Sluis Van or Druckenwell.
Alexander "Warhawk" McCray
Earl of Embaril
Thane of Brightdeen
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| Benito_Ximénez | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 11:42 AM | Message # 4 |
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| While I have thoughts to contribute to this discussion, which I will hopefully contribute to tonight, I must apologize for the ecumenopolis reference. I've been working through my entire free time the past couple of days to get all of the info relevant to Deralia, the fleshing out that has been done, and its current build, etc. very soon, and to make some kind of post on a thread that escaped my notice, I accidentally looked up an old build I had worked on awhile back for Deralia. Apologies, and the post will be edited to a more proper state.
Benito Ximénez
Director, Royal Intelligence Service
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| Vil_Haran | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 11:51 AM | Message # 5 |
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| Considering the only information on Deralia is that Revan had it imprinted as a memory as that's where he came from, and there's little to no other information on it other than saying it exist in Canon sense, I'm sure that Staff has no problems with creative freedom being put on it to develop it into what the writer would want to develop it into. After all, for example, the Canon only says Embaril exist and you've seen fit to turn it upside down into a bunch of bigoted racist when its a possibility that in the future a book will come along that mentions Embaril as being a more progressive cultural center.
Vil Haran (Deceased)
True Mandalore
True Crusaders
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| Karth_DeQora | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 12:52 PM | Message # 6 |
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| I do like what was done with Dantooine, if only for the laughs.
Man, Myth, Administrative God. Also plays a mean kazoo.
Jace Varitek: In Northern California we just have gangs of vigilante interior decorators.
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| King_Deralius_XX | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 9:56 PM | Message # 7 |
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| I would have no qualms with your assessment of Deralia... were this a KotOR era RP. All the canon regarding Deralia, has been established in the timeframe of 3,956 BBY. This is 10 BBY, almost 9 BBY. Nearly four thousand years exist between the two points in the history of the Star Wars Universe. Look at, for a real-life example, the difference between Earth in 2000 AD and 2000 BC.
2000 BC the only major, notable civilization is the Egyptians, with the rest still being mostly formative. Population is extremely low. Technology is just entering the Bronze Age, more or less. 2000 AD, look at how many civilizations we have now... where technology is comparatively, let alone the population (due to hit 7 billion at the end of the month, according to the UN).
The point is, a planet, a culture, can change drastically over the course of several thousand years. Now, while I hope my entire concept I've been laboring on isn't derailed or completely changed (i.e. the Mandalorians) on November 15th, when Revan is released; I do doubt ground-shaking changes to the character, as it is Drew Karpyshyn, the originator of the story of Revan, writing the novel.
But, to give you an idea... 4,000 years ago, a world is remote, not very notable, population resembling a world like Dantooine or so. Suddenly, to the galaxy, this world is the only known home of the era's greatest Jedi and/or Sith Lord. Attention shifts, people migrate... the world has a new found purpose... and identity. They embrace the idea of Revan being their son, and not only look to his philosophies, but adopt a more warrior and militant culture after having moved beyond that from their past. A few millenia later, you have a unique, vibrant, and influential world as Deralia has become in the RP. As I've said though, I am working on a "Guide to Deralia" to explain all this, the system, the people, etc. in depth. I hope to have it up by the end of the week, which will hopefully give people an idea of the whys and the hows, for those interested anyways.
And thank you, Vil, for you're expression of support. Karth, I agree on Dantooine. Rather fitting, actually.Added (17 Oct 2011, 10:56 PM)
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And to put this in the best real-life terms... albeit probably the most horrible example I can come up with, Deralia is that little runt that was picked on most of his childhood, only to experience the glory of puberty, mixed with revenge, and is now a bestial mass of muscle, with a still existent little man complex, in the back of the bar, drunk off his ass, screaming "COME AT ME, BRAH!!!" to random people.
His Majesty Deralius the Twentieth
King of Deralia and Deralian Dominions
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| Jace_Varitek | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 10:52 PM | Message # 8 |
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| A sensible argument indeed. However, the problem with it is that in Star Wars, civilization seems to reach it's pinnacle of technological and cultural sophistication (which happens to be c. 2011 AD levels of sophistication, plus a handful of advanced technologies like shields, hyperspace, etc.) in the thousands BBY, and remains essentially—and inexplicably—stagnant for thousands and thousands of years. This is a consequence of the limits of the human imagination to anticipate even our own future; indeed, science fiction is rife with projections of the present into supposedly "futuristic" settings. Even Star Wars, with its shields and its hyperspace, etc., basically has 1990's communication technology because the prequels don't improve much on the conspicuously 1970's and 80's interpretation of Star Wars technology (how can they? They're prequels) and a lot of the Expanded Universe that's not based on the films has been based around the 1990's boom in Star Wars literature. Thus, while the "holonet" is referred to in vague terms (but increasingly specific terms, however, as the internet has developed), never is any character in the films seen using anything more sophisticated than an iPad, give or take a few holographic projections of dubious necessity (the Endor briefing, the briefing on the Outer Rim seiges, etc.)
So, the problem is that Star Wars, because of the limits of human imagination and the commercial imperative of having a product that doesn't offend consumers ("there's no homosexuality in Star Wars," for instance), the galaxy doesn't really seem to advance technologically or culturally except in superficial ways, and seems to have done all the advancing it's going to at around 25,000 BBY—since that time, there are few if any changes in the way characters think about ethics, politics, etc., and technology hardly advances at all. It's difficult to explain this in IC terms. OOC, we refer to the period of 500 AD to 1000—1200 AD (or so) as the Christian "dark ages," and yet a similar period of stagnation in Star Wars lasting 25 times longer isn't seen as unusual. Indeed, there's a definite sense that in Star Wars, IC, the politics of the moment change (drastically, in fact) but things remain essentially the same. Why, you ask? They just do.
So, while I'm not dismissing your argument about how a culture can change over time, which is indeed a good argument, I would caution against making comparisons with our own history because it's just not a comparison that holds up. I'm not arguing that Deralia couldn't have developed over time, either. It's possible, and I'm not really taking a position at this time except to say that I'm sympathetic to a certain fealty to "what we do know" in situations where we don't have all the facts; namely, what is Deralia like in 10 BBY? And "what we do know" is that it's in an inarguably remote location and that virtually no mention of it is ever made. This instinctively makes me sympathetic to the notion that Deralia isn't a significant world—certainly not an ecumenopolis, and I'm pleased that notion has been dropped. But like I said, I'm not taking a position at this time because I'm also sentimental about ambiguities in the canon lending themselves to creative freedom and flexibility, as Vil has said and so have I on occasions past. And this has indeed worked to the advantage of Dantooine, Vjun, etc.
But I'll reserve judgment, personally, until the "Guide to Deralia" is up. I don't doubt that it'll answer most of our questions and concerns satisfactorily.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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| Jace_Varitek | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 10:53 PM | Message # 9 |
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Generalissimo
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| Although, to be blunt, Jamie is right there are far too many Deralians in high-ranking Imperial positions.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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| King_Deralius_XX | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 11:09 PM | Message # 10 |
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| Aside from the individuals related to Deralia directly (I include Veritas among those), there is only an Inquisitor, Star Destroyer Captain, Admiral, General of a division, and another character that is currently serving as a flight instructor (but is yet to be introduced due to having no real usefulness thus far in concern with the RP as a whole), and a business man looking to demerge Rothana Heavy Engineering from Kuat Drive Yards (which I wouldn't necesarrily deem "high-ranking"). I could be forgetting someone, but it is doubtful. I wouldn't deem a handful of individuals, as it is, too many, let alone the majority.
His Majesty Deralius the Twentieth
King of Deralia and Deralian Dominions
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| Jace_Varitek | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 11:23 PM | Message # 11 |
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Generalissimo
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| Also a supreme court justice and, I believe, an Intelligence operative. I could be wrong on the second one. And for the record, I didn't realize your Inquisitor was Deralian. Anyway, off to sleep I go.
Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes
Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:
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| WarhawkMcCray | Date: Monday, 17 Oct 2011, 11:41 PM | Message # 12 |
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| Anyway - the only thing that really mattered to me was that ecumenopolis reference.
The fact Veritas runs the defense committee means procurement can be.. made to happen...
Alexander "Warhawk" McCray
Earl of Embaril
Thane of Brightdeen
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