| Jamie_the_Hutt | Date: Tuesday, 28 Feb 2012, 4:48 PM | Message # 16 |
 Major general
Group: Users
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| "X does it too!" doesn't really make your argument very strong.
But re Vjun
Basically because Vjun is never actually stated directly to be completely unpopulated (referring to it as a "big dead rock" in a game doesn't really count as it's a really vague statement made in banter between two Jedi) - people clearly are still there in the Clone Wars period (the capital of Bitter End stated as having been reduced from 660,000 to a "shadow of it's former glory". Got the book here so if you have any actual sources from it or other sources where numbers are stated I'd be happy to look it up/buy it to check. As such considering the capital had a population of 660,000, it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume the world had a population of millions, ergo the current population of around 10,000 isn't really excessive.
Re sources for Deralia
A "simple map" as you put it does matter when it's from the only source for Deralia even existing outside of KOTOR (which left considerable ambiguity on this point). Deralia has very little information in the canon (both mention it as minor) so to completely go against everything the sources state is a bit odd, no?
Compare this to Vjun, in 12 novels (and several games) its in it is stated as being "known for its acidic rainfalls". That said, none of the sources for Vjun are set between 10BBY and 0BBY - so I think it would be reasonable for it to be a green and pleasant land which has had a sudden influx of billions of coreworlders keen to farm acid beets - after all there are no sources for the world in this period right?
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| OrionKarath | Date: Tuesday, 28 Feb 2012, 5:50 PM | Message # 17 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Administrators
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| I was merely stating the same line of logic you are using against Deralia. I chose Deralia for expansion and exploration because of its lack of canon information. There also isn't any full scale exploration of the interaction between planetary government or between the Empire and planetary governments; Deralia has been one of several successful tools for our RP to in fact explore this, as has Adam's expansion of Druckenwell, as will his expansion of Lorrd, as his Havoc's use of Dantooine, expanding it to be more than a meaningless colony and site of what could very well be the only existence of cave men in Star Wars. As has your expansions, past and present, upon Vjun. As has Jace's in-the-works expansion and clarification of Brentaal. All of these works, help increase RP, and make our group healthy. This meshing of several different ideas and concepts, these varied beliefs. We are also limited, in some aspects, by the canon.
Eventually, Deralia and it's star system has to suffer catastrophic population loss, somehow. I aim that when that does happen, it is done in a fashion that will provide healthy and constructive RP which is respectful to any and all involved at that time with Deralia. On the same foot, while it is an entertaining thought for Vjun to become a green and pleasant land, and for RP purposes I would not stand against the Vjunite government attempting to terraform their world, at 29 BBY, it is, for lack of a better term, an acidic wasteland, with an industrious people attempting to make the best of what the world is. In 20 BBY, it was the same. In 10 ABY, it is still that way. In 22 ABY, it is still that way. It is described that way whenever Bast Castle seems to be mentioned. In this case, despite the potential, Vjun being a green, happy place where Core worlders can have adventures in farming would out of the question, merely due to the time frame; the capital, assets, and time all being a factor in the successful implementation of terraforming on Vjun. I wouldn't stand in the way of an attempt to do so though; and we can talk about it being the green and pleasant place in a post-Yuuzhan Vong War period RP, where it has been occupied by, and presumably, terraformed by the Vong!
My point is, unless there is extremely pressing, or simply time-related limits, on an RP possibility, or an avenue of exploration through RP, why should one stand against it? Why make such a concerted effort in opposition to Deralia and the ideas and concepts I've been exploring? Why does this seem to be such a hot-button issue for you, as a person?
Orion Karath
Manager from June 2009 to Present, Administrator from December 2011 to Present
My posts here, pre-2009 archives here
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| Jamie_the_Hutt | Date: Tuesday, 28 Feb 2012, 6:36 PM | Message # 18 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 392
Status: Offline
| To answer your questions.
1. I don't oppose invention, I just think it should bear some resemblance to the canon (Vjun having 30 years of being a green agri world being an unrealistic example - but a population 500x that of the only canon figure does seem a bit far that direction too surely?). Exploration needs to be done hand in hand with the canon, or why not just roleplay less well quantified scifi like Star Trek, the Cultureverse etc - without staying fairly close to the canon the roleplay risks in a very real way stopping being star wars.
2. I don't stand against it, but I do think the level of plagarism from Rome (or at least the HBO depiction of it!) seems just a bit over the top for the star wars setting but that's just a personal opinion - i.e. it doesn't require contradiction or throwing out sources.
3. I think characterising this as a "hot button" issue with "me" as a way to dismiss my arguments (the tired "Jamie hates me" canard). It simply remains something I have a problem with because I don't like seeing information thrown out because it's not during the exact period for expediency's sake - or you could just throw out 95% of the canon for it not being set in the exact year.
Thus my objection to the population level is an essentially principled objection (a 99.8% decrease is huge! I wouldn't mint it going from even a couple of hundred million to 1-10 (or even 0-1) million wouldn't be so odd as the multi-billion range which is hugely out of whack with the rest of the region's population) - just as is my objection to a high percentage of senior Imperial characters being Deralian - this can be contrasted with my opinion of your Deralian culture which while I do not object to it, I find silly.
I do raise issues when I see them (and continue to raise them to increase awareness of them!) because debate and scrutiny are healthy for any system. I have a good history of raising any and all problems where and when I find them (such as to the Cronese Mandate being pretty much totally autonomous from the rest of the Galaxy militarily for example).
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