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Star Wars RP: A Galaxy At War Forum » OOC (Out of Character) » OOC Forum » The Battle of Endor: Biggest Rebel Blunder
The Battle of Endor: Biggest Rebel Blunder
Jamie_the_HuttDate: Sunday, 14 Apr 2013, 4:13 PM | Message # 1
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Ackbar/Lando made empirically the wrong call at Endor. They opted to attack the fleet which outgunned them. This is a decision of unparalleled stupidity since Penobscot.

Firstly, why didn't they jump in on an angle not covered by the Superlaser? Like sure, you don't think it's working. If I didn't think a tank wasn't working I wouldn't still walk right up the direction it's barrel points!


First you've got to remember that the rebels explicitly had the full schematics (which many Bothans died for, RIP Bothans)

Righto, so these days (and apparently originally ILM intended) the DS2 to be 900km (at least) across. So that means a radius of 450km.

That means a surface area of 2,544,690 square km.

The Death Star had 35,000 Capital Ship Grade weapons (plus megadeath laser).

Assuming equal spread, that's one turbolaser or ion battery every 72.7 square KM. Or one per 8.5km x 8.5km square on the whole hull.

Now even assuming they do spread these out (doesn't seem an amazing idea but concentrating them doesn't either) in this way, that would mean that if you approached the Death Star from any given angle, you'd outgun it (guns:hull surface area) massively and be able to blow up those guns.

Thus I propose.

Moving to engage an Imperial Battlefleet (even if it wasn't moving) was costly and stupid.

The fleet specifically had orders not to attack just to stop the rebels escaping, so unless they had new orders (high command with authorization all doing jedi shizzle) they wouldn't be able to even move to engage the rebel ships. Even if they broke orders and did so, once the shields down they'd end up hitting the DS itself.

So in moving extremely close (but outside of shields - possibly on the uncompleted side to avoid taking any anti-capital ship fire) to the Death Star they would have been able to avoid the Imperial Fleet, additionally they would have been able to attack the DS directly when the shield was down, pretty much at will. Also, close in no superlaser angle..

Thus, with a company of General Madine's finest Commandos they'd have been free to capture and Emperor and Vader, rescue Luke and then have the biggest freaking bargaining chips ever in the chaotic years to come. Vader would be especially useful since he might be nice by that point and could help win over a measure of Imperial Military support for peace, or as the Emperor's successor sign a treaty himself if the Emperor was executed for war crimes.

Thus! Less rebels would have died in a pointless fight. The Death Star could've possibly even been captured (if you could capture Palpatine/Vader) get one to order a stand-down.

Alternatively, rebel commandos could've raided the Superlaser and if they captured the controls (forlorn hope but gotta try) then the Entire Imperial Fleet would be at their mercy.

Then you could have got people to sit down and look at this horrid death machine (put it on google) and decide on moderate reform with an air of legitimacy, circumventing 15 years of infighting to follow which costs trillions of lives.

AND it'd be a vastly more satisfying and tidy ending. If you didn't blow it up and instead had it dismantled you dont get an Endor Holocaust etc..

A lot of the wounds would be healed, the moderate Imperials who didn't like Palpatine would jump at the chance for something new. Vader could then abdicate his Throne after a new constitution was drafted.


Strikes against the plan and execution of Ackbar/Solo/Lando etc
1. Terrible attack angle toward the big laser which they "thought" didn't work yet. Even if say they had to jump in on one beacon say.. if you look how quickly Ackbar's cruiser turns and moves away it wouldn't be difficult to relocate the fleet quickly out of its arc of fire.
2. Moving the fleet into the Imperial Armada of Doom, taking the starfighters away from the Deathstar, delaying their ability to attack it later.
3. "Concentrating fire on those star destroyers", Why? They're not in the mission profile as targets. Targets of opportunity then? This reminds me of Cavalry riding off to attack fleeing infantry because what they were ordered to charge looked difficult. THUS: I accuse Ackbar and Lando of being indecisive commanders lacking the ability to commit.
4. Their only really big success is wasting the Executor which is pure luck via an accidental Kamikaze attack (begs the question why he didn't pull eject? Did another pilot even tell him to? Maybe he wanted to be a hero).
5. Ground operation badly mishandled forlorn hope they literally staked their whole battle on. V V SILLY. Why didn't they bring a squad of wookiees? They had lots of Wookiees, if the shuttle was scanned Wookiees wouldn't look out of place as they were used as slaves on both DSes and they're also much better adapted to fighting in woods. Seemingly they don't even try to give themselves the best chance.
6. Fire support? They fail to provide any orbital bombardment or air support to help in the ground battle (despite being able to).

Jamie's plan

1. Do the terrible ground force plan as it goes in the film. Except once you are in control of the shield generator... turn it off. There aren't any Imperials left to fight your teddy bears so why not switch it off for now but keep it under your control. If the Imperials hit it because it's in your control (with TLs maybe) you've lost nothing more than you were gonna blow up anyway.
2. Make the initial team a little better equipped (why not as scout troopers if you want humans? Not in REBEL COMMANDO ARMOUR. You see, idk if they pointed out but the fact you are in Rebel Commando Garb rather implies a shoot on sight policy. Scout trooper armour you can be like "Oh god my communicator is fried can you come help" then beat them up (less deads this way).
3. To win the land battle quicker, send like 2 obselete fighters to go and blow up the AT-STs on the ground.


1. Move in close to the incomplete side of the death star, or circumnavigate it, ideally moving everything significant out of turbolaser shot.
2. The Imperial Fleet can't follow because theyre explicitly ordered not to do so and the only people who can countermand that order are really busy with religious stuff. It's allowed to stop you escaping, but moving toward the DS2 is what Palpatine explicitly wants so wouldn't be intercepted. Presumably he knows that the rebels are stupid enough to approach through the fire arc of the Superlaser.
3. Skirmish about taking the scant fire the DS can direct at you (likely none, since it needs to shutter the whole shield to fire the superlaser and it's projected from elsewhere the same must apply to TLs. Fighters weren't launched in the battle (early on to not open the shields and let rebel flights inside).
4. Remember to yourself that you have the schematics for the death star. You also know the Emperor is aboard and Vader. Thus while you move your rebel fighters (not diminished by TIE spamming/flak) just outside this orifice to go in as soon as shield comes down. Move other parts of the fleet to dominating locations.
5. Once you have the generator down (down doesn't have to mean blown up remember) let the rebel fleet inside and THEN put it back up. The shield is 10-50 km in it's bubble above the hull. There is now fuck all the Imperial fleet could do to stop the undamaged rebel fleet wreaking mayhem. There are a lot of assault boarding shuttles in the rebel fleet, and marines.
6. As the fighters go inside but hold off on destroying the core unless ordered, its a giant space with no anti fighter fire, any Imperial fighters pursuing them in can be easily dealt with.
7. Launch a massive boarding action at the Emperor's tower* on multiple floors. Storming it rapidly (for plot's sake at the moment Vader realizes he's a dick but before killing Palpatine etc would be when the Commandos would dash in). This way you capture the Emperor and his Successor, alive.


Best case next steps
8. Have strike teams ready to take over the control stations for the superlaser.
9. Have Vader order the station to stand down, at gunpoint if need be. If he didn't fancy it just blackmail Jerjerrod with the fact that you can blow up his station (his inclination would be prudent surrender I suspect, he's no hero).
9. Once the station is stood down take over the superlaser. Point out to the Imperial fleet you could wipe them out rather easily.
10. Say Vader has arrested and overthrown the Emperor for being a dick (lots of the Military like Vader more anyway). Emperor to be put on trial etc.. You don't need Vader or the Emperor really, but for a more peaceful transition the Emperor being tried and Imprisoned and Vader presiding over a transition would make a lasting peace more likely. So this is a "thinking ahead" one.
11. Invite all the Media to inspect the superweapon, use momentum from it to justify quick war crimes trial to get him out of the public eye in a cell.
12. Empire rolls over, some mopping up dissident Imperials, war over in a year at most.

Second best case (Vader/Palpatine dead in commando raid)
8. Have strike teams ready to take over the control stations for the superlaser.
9. Blackmail Jerjerrod with the fact that you can blow up his station (his inclination would be prudent surrender I suspect, he's no hero).
9. Once the station is stood down take over the superlaser. Point out to the Imperial fleet you could wipe them out rather easily and that your own is safe in the shield.
10. Accept Imperial capitulation of the fleet. War goes on elsewhere but the DS is a massive bargaining chip and gives the rebels a permanent secure base. With its lack of a hyperdrive (you'd stop construction naturally) it's just a big defense platform. Any big threats to it then blow it up INSIDE it's shield bubble (overload the generator but meh) stopping fragments hitting Endor.
11. Rebels holding the Death Star means at worst the Empire will waste a massive amount of resources to destroy it, allowing the Rebels to run campaigns places that really matter. At best, the Empire realizes their own weapon has been turned against them and under Pestage opens negotiations.

Third best case (Vader/Palpatine dead in commando raid or before, Jerjerrod has balls and doesn't surrender)
8. Have strike teams ready to take over the control stations for the superlaser.
9. Station commander has a sudden fit of heroism and won't surrender. In lieu of destroying the DS2 just blow up all it's Superlaser emitters.
9. Hold Death Star as a bargaining chip/exposee of the Empire to every journo ever inside forcefield, blow it up if need be.
10. Rebel fleet almost completely intact and able to blow up death star if need be and then leave (star wars ending a la the films but more Rebels alive)
11. Rebels emerge much as in the film (after the Media show up to document the evil Imperial weapon, giving them good PR thus winning more support and alienating some Moderate Imps from those who want to keep fighting). They can also give the Imperials notice of when they're planning to destroy it and so allow them to evacuate peacefully, preventing an atrocity of helpless folk.

Worst case (Vader/Palpatine dead in commando raid or before, Jerjerrod has balls and doesn't surrender, fighters have to hit the Death Star reactor and destroy immediately)
8. Pull fleet out and away a little way to be safe (as per canon)
9. Destroy DS2 inside forcefield avoiding ewok holocaust, or not, but just use the sphere of forcefield to protect damaged ships and allow medical ships etc to stay safe in coming battle (a safe zone for rebels effectively created)
9. Rebels able to attack Imperial fleet (dispirited) as elements retreat. Fresher rebel ships = higher Imperial losses and greater rebel morale increases number of ships captured. Able to use
10. Rebel fleet more intact, especially fighter corps. Endor generator captured intact (could be salvaged perhaps or just blown up).

Rebels emerge better off -even- if elements of the revised strategy fail (Capturing the Imperial Leaders/Death Star).

Palpatine's Tower "The Emperor's throne room on the second Death Star was on the top of a 100-story tower located on the north pole of the superweapon. It was his command center that had access to all systems on the station. It was also protected by several turbolaser turrets and more shielded than any other part of the station. The common circular viewport lined with the web-like framework provided an amazing view for Palpatine, while armrest controls kept him in touch with his countless minions. Barracks for a legion of Royal Guards and various living quarters for his advisors were included at the tower's foot."
Note: Only real obstacle is legion of guards in the barracks, luckily they never got to arrive and he only has a dozen with him. Also worth noting its stated a lot of his personal data was backed up here! (USEFUL!)
Star Wars RP: A Galaxy At War Forum » OOC (Out of Character) » OOC Forum » The Battle of Endor: Biggest Rebel Blunder
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