What we saw in that episode last night was Mandalore. Apparently, it does have an aristocracy, and they are pacifists. This much we know as of 20 BBY. I hasten to add that we don't know for certain, now, what Mandalore is like as of 20 ABY, our current timeline. Zuthus has argued to me, and I agree with him, that the Empire's enslavement of Mandalore might have brought about a resurgence of the traditional, warrior ways. However, I have to be honest that with this new information it seems unlikely that the "traditionalists," if you will, would be very numerous at this time.

I want to encourage Mandalorian characters to suggest ways that we might reconcile these differences and still keep the current RP going with as few changes to it as possible (some changes, apparently, do seem necessary). For example, Mandalorian "traditionalists" such as Zuthus, Ordo, Mereel and so on could, instead, be headquartered on Concordia, the moon of Mandalore which is lush and green and portrayed in the show as rather traditionalist in its ways. I must emphasize, however, that we probably can't commit firmly to an explanation until the other episodes are played out, and the new changes have been officially retconned.

Nonetheless, I'm curious to hear everyone's (constructive) thoughts on this. I'm sure we can work out something.

Here are some of the problems, as I see them:

■ The planet Mandalore is now seen as a post-apocalyptic wasteland, whereas before it was described as forested.
■ The Mandalorians are described in 20 BBY, predominantly, as pacifists who have given up the old warrior ways.
■ In our plot, the Mandalorians practice slavery. This new portrayal of Mandalorians most likely would not.

Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here

"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes

Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:

If we do move this "traditionalist" movement away from Mandalore and, instead, on Concordia (or Dxun, as Isez suggested), I think that might be cool, actually. The Mandalorians have always kind of been outcasts, and this way we would go back to that portrayal of them instead of being "the man." Maybe instead of a war against the Remnant, we could instead try to conquer the Mandalorian Sector back from the pacifists? (shouldn't be difficult, lol). One thing we know for sure is that Mandalore doesn't appear in the canon at all during this time period, so it's concievable.

Also, if we do still want to take on the Remnant, we could always do it Inglourious Basterds style.

What does Zuthus think about all this?

We don't (yet) know exactly what happened during the Clone Wars, since this particular story arc in the TV series will be further developed over the next two episodes. Much of what I'm about to write might no longer apply in the coming weeks. But we do know, for now, that Mandalorians such as Alpha-Ø2—known as "Mandalore the Resurrector"—and Fenn Shysa were instrumental in revitalizing the old traditions and joining the Separatists, against the wishes of the "New Mandalorians" who, Wookieepedia suggests, tacitly supported Alpha-Ø2 or, at least, did not oppose him. When the Clone Wars ended, Fenn Shysa returned to Mandalore only to find that its people were being enslaved by the Empire.

According to this suggested version of the story, the "New Mandalorians" and Fenn Shysa's traditionalists—or "True Mandalorians"—would have worked with each other and with the Rebel Alliance to force the Empire off of Mandalore, which they did in 3 ABY. Shysa then traveled to places like Dxun, Ordo, and Concordia, recruited more soldiers to his cause, and waged a campaign against Imperial forces throughout the Sector. Zuthus tells me that, by 5 ABY, the Mandalorian Sector was freed.

The war is over, and thus begins a renewed era of animosity between the peaceful, aristocratic "New Mandalorians," who resume governing the planet Mandalore, and the traditional, warlike "True Mandalorians," who are now spread throughout the Sector but, aside from those few places such as Ordo, Dxun and Concordia, have no control over most of it. Fenn Shysa and the traditionalists would, no doubt, be upset that their sacrifice is not respected by the pacifists, and the pacifists, in turn, would be upset that Shysa has declared himself Mand'alor, or leader, of all the Mandalorian people. Neither one recognizes the other's authority.

This, finally, sets us up for the RP. Fenn Shysa, for whatever reason, has gone on leave, or on a mission, and Zuthus Bralor is the Mand'alor in his absense (this is how it works now, so it should be familiar). Bralor presides over the traditionalist Mandalorians and reunites many of them for a war of conquest—not against the Remnant, as we originally planned, but a war of conquest of the Mandalorian Sector; to Bralor, Marcus Ordo, Isez Baird and the others, it is a question of respect and of governing the planets that they fought to free from the Empire. And so the stage is set for a Mandalorian Civil War.

Isez and Ordo are definitely willing to make this happen. I've also talked to Mr. Cratwright, and he's agreed to RP the Duke of Mandalore—the leader of the pacifist "New Mandalorian" government—if we move ahead with this idea. It remains to be seen what Zuthus thinks of it.

The one major difference here is that Zuthus Bralor's Mandalorians will not have as many ships because they have limited resources and infrastructure. However, if it's a conflict within the Mandalorian Sector (and especially a conflict against pacifists) you really don't need as many ships.

So, how's that sound? Bear in mind, again, that all of this is subject to change on the whims of the next episode of The Clone Wars. This version of events, however, is based on the best information that we have at the moment.

Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here

"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes

Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:

I should say former authors in the Star Wars franchise, because she's backed out of writing all of her forthcoming books because the canon discrepancies are too huge to overcome. As she wrote on her blog, "... if I hook you with a story, my part of the deal is to follow through and give you a satisfying outcome. If changes beyond my control mean I can't give you that, then I won't do a half a job. You deserve better than that. And in five, ten, twenty years time, nobody picking up the books will know that the stories suddenly changed direction because the canon changed in the middle of it. They'll just see books that went off-course for no visible reason and didn't deliver what they promised at the start."

Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here

"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes

Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:

As for your second point, this is why I was sure to mention that constructive input is preferable. We're trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here

"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes

Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee:

It is possible that the Imperials would brutally oppress the pacifist "New Mandalorians," but as I also suggested to you, it seems just as likely that they might have cooperated with the Imperials in a most treacherous fashion and, thus, be spared much of the carnage. However, either one of these is speculation on my part, which is why in my version of events (above) I didn't address that era in much detail apart from what we already know about Fenn Shysa, the Rebel Alliance, etc. You are right, however, that we should probably wait for more information before we speculate too much, either way.

As for the Yuuzhan Vong era, I admit—as usual—I'm not familiar with it, but considering the total absense of any mention of Mandalorians for about a decade, including this time period, I'm led to believe that they're not terribly powerful. On the other hand, it does say that under Fenn Shysa's rule (i.e. during our current storyline) the fleet of the Mandalorian Protectors existed primarily to defend the borders of the Mandalore Sector and the people in it, and no more. So it could be that we didn't hear anything about the Mandalorians for that reason.

All of this leads me to one conclusion: the canon as pertains to the Mandalorians is in hopeless disarray. I'm feeling reluctant now about the plan that I proposed—there's too much speculation in it. The alternative, though, is to wait 2 weeks for these next episodes to air (and even then, many of these questions probably still won't be answered). Keeping the RP on hold that long doesn't seem like a desirable option, but on the other hand we can't well continue as we are since this, too, is compromised. What does everyone think about this?

Jace Varitek
Manager/Administrator from January 2003 to Present
My recent posts here, pre-2009 archives here

"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"
—John Maynard Keynes

Furthermore, a dancing Wookiee: