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The Cambrist Amendments
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Friday, 07 Jan 2011, 10:22 PM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Some time ago, Senator Oriel proposed an ambitious measure to limit the power of planetary monarchs. This measure was ahead of its time, perhaps, and did not command enough support in this chamber to pass. At the time, however, I proposed a pair of amendments that, I felt, added to the measure, albeit modestly. And here I propose them again for the Senate's consideration and, I hope, it's approval. I think you will find, Senators, that outside the context of Senator Oriel's measure these are quite reasonable, and that they deserve your votes in favor. 1. Henceforth, where monarchy is present on an Imperial world, and where an Imperial Governor is also present, the Imperial Governor shall have supremacy over that world's monarch in all affairs of state. 2. Henceforth, where monarchy is not present on an Imperial world, that world may not constitute (or re-constitute) one.
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 7:46 AM | Message # 2 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| Vjun has addressed this issue before, naturally we feel that monarchies are a threat to the integrity of the Empire. Thus we vote against allowing worlds to form new monarchies.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 7:46 AM | Message # 3 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 379
Status: Offline
| I am sorry but I must vote against this for obvious reasons.
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Crin_Star | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:07 AM | Message # 4 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Status: Offline
| I feel i must vote against any rebirth of that bill.
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:17 AM | Message # 5 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| While this amendment in itself is a vastly more diluted bill than my original. It is clear to me that this is legislation the Emperor would wish is passed. As such I vote firmly in favour of it.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Crin_Star | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:26 AM | Message # 6 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Status: Offline
| Senator, if the emperor wished for a piece of legislation he could make a mandate himself or ask someone to draft it up. You are not someone to presume what his majesty wishes or would want and go beyond your station.
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:35 AM | Message # 7 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| He is a benevolent ruler, and as such is unlikely to push for laws unless they are urgently needed. But if his majesty was asked "Do you wish monarchies to be established", I am certain he would answer "No". Monarchies threaten the supremacy of the Emperor, only to his majesty should we bow in deference as sovereign, not some planetary despot.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Crin_Star | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:40 AM | Message # 8 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Status: Offline
| Senator Ordan, I repeat you do not represent His Majesty or the Empire. As such you can not speak for his desires. His Majesty speaks for us we do not speak for him senator and you would do well to remember that fact.
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:45 AM | Message # 9 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| I simply am being logical. Just as his majesty would not endorse a vote to damage the Empire, he would endorse a vote for its protection. As one who loves the Empire, I am able to see the the viewpoint of another who's embracing love has sustained our Empire so far. Frankly I think Senator Star's views are again bordering on the unpatriotic. Does she believe other worlds should be allowed to establish monarchies which by their very existence conflict with the essential principle of having one benevolent, wise Emperor who represents the people.. rather than unelected petty despots who claim "sovereignty"
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
Message edited by Senator_Ordan - Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:51 AM |
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| Crin_Star | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:47 AM | Message # 10 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Status: Offline
| This bill does nothing for the benefit of the empire as your did not either. You sought to remove the rights of planets to govern themselves, their right to choose their own method of governance.
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 9:53 AM | Message # 11 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| All rights of governance come from the Emperor as the ultimate representative of the will of the people of the Empire, as elected by the Imperial Senate. It should not be permitted for worlds to pretend that their petty chieftains are "sovereign" or royal in a manner which contradicts the power of the throne.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Saturday, 08 Jan 2011, 10:13 AM | Message # 12 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 891
Status: Offline
| Chandrila also votes against this measure.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Sunday, 09 Jan 2011, 7:13 PM | Message # 13 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I am aware that I have tested the chair's patience already, and I must emphasize that I mean no disrespect in this case, but still the question must be asked, Senators, have you all gone daft? I'm sorry too, Senator Cerra, I don't see any "obvious reasons" to vote against this. Senator Star, this is not a "rebirth" of Senator Oriel's proposal. These are a pair of modest amendments to Senator Oriel's proposal—presented here on their own merits—that are nothing close to the scale or intent of that proposal. Once again, I see no reason why you've voted against this, or why Senator Thanatos has. Senator Cerra, Senator Star, your worlds both have monarchies and so let me clarify for you that this measure will not change or abolish those monarchies. It simply prevents the formation of new monarchies from now on. That is the Second of these amendments. The First Amendment is a clarification of existing law. It should come as no surprise to either of you, especially to you, Senator Cerra, that monarchs are subordinate to the Emperor and his delegates; that is, Imperial Governors, who represent the Empire and, thus, the Emperor. In voting against the First Amendment, you are casting a truly revolutionary vote against the authority of His Majesty, and in your case, Senator Cerra, you are voting unprecedented power unto yourself. In fact, because of Senator and Queen Cerra's clear and present conflict of interest in this issue, I move that the chair disqualify her vote. There are no "obvious reasons" to vote against this, Senators. In my opinion, there are no reasons to vote against this, and no excuses.
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Sunday, 09 Jan 2011, 7:21 PM |
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| Crin_Star | Date: Sunday, 09 Jan 2011, 7:42 PM | Message # 14 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Status: Offline
| Senator Cambrist, this measure would bring up one of the very problems I had with Senator ordan's idiotic proposal. That worlds should be allowed to choose how to govern themselves. IF a world wishes to instate a monarchy and style itself on the example of the empire then they SHOULD be allowed to do so. The Empire is shown to work right here and planets, when constituting a government or reconstituting one should be able to look at what has been proven to, and is being proven to, work. The Empire WORKS senator Cambrist, and if a planet seeking stability wants to initiate a monarchy then they should be allowed to, subordinate to the empire of course.
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Sunday, 09 Jan 2011, 8:19 PM | Message # 15 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Thank you, Senator, for presenting a reason to oppose the measure. It is not so much opposition to the measure itself that bothers me, but rather blithe opposition to it. As for your reason, however, I'm afraid we simply do not agree. The Empire works, yes, because it is not a monarchy but, rather, it is the monarchy. I have addressed this issue recently in an indirect manner and I will not repeat myself but to emphasize that it simply doesn't do to have the King or Queen of one of His Majesty's worlds claiming themselves to be "sovereign," or to be "most distinguished," "most noble," or "most honorable." These titles are demeaning to His Majesty just as planetary monarchies, too, are demeaning to His Majesty. This is why, Senator, monarchies traditionally have a "King" or "Emperor" at the fore, with subordinate ranks referred to as "Prince," "Duke," "Lord," and so on. You will not find a monarchy in all of history that has existed with a "King" or "Emperor" at its fore and additional "Kings" and "Emperors" subordinate to it. It is demeaning, as I said, to the concept of monarchy. Worlds can and should govern themselves, of course. But they should govern themselves as worlds, not as "kingdoms," "empires," or "dominions." His Majesty's worlds must be mindful of their place in his Empire, and planetary pretensions to royalty are destructive of this end. That said, I feel my proposal is rather generous in permitting existing monarchies to remain in existence. Built into these amendments, thus, is a compromise, and it is a compromise that I would hope that worlds with monarchies would have the grace to accept.
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Sunday, 09 Jan 2011, 8:21 PM |
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