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Reformation of the Ethics Committee
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Monday, 21 Nov 2011, 11:54 PM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant colonel
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| It has become apparent that the Ethics Committee, an ideal that many hold close, has become a mockery of that ideal and has fallen into dismay, disorder and disarray in the weeks following its approval and implementation. While the events that have transpired on Anobis due to a terrorist attack can not be seen as anything less than tragic, it has still compromised Senator Slai-Fon enough to prevent him from successfully act in his capacity of Chair of the Ethics committee, leaving its two remaining members to squabble over the position of co-chair, as well as caused another potentially member to resign before they could even begin their work on the Committee. It is because of this disorder that I bring the following to the Senate.
The Reformation of the Ethics Committee
Section I
The Ethics Committee, its chair having been compromised emotionally to prevent him from acting in his duties, as well as placing the Committee into disarray to the point of its remaining members to squabble over the position of Co-Chair is to be reformed with a new Chair and Co-Chair.
Section II
The Current Chair, Senator Slai-Fon, will be removed from the position, as well as other members removed from their current positions to allow the implementation of a new functioning Ethics Committee.
Section III
Senator Fitzgerald, or Senator Vanden would act as the new Chair/Co-Chair or vice versa in replacement of the current Chair Senator Slai-Fon, and to fill in the empty Co-Chair position that has been argued over by the remaining members of the Committee.
Section IV
Previous hearings of the Ethics Committee will be struck from record, and it will be at the discretion of the new Ethics Committee, if previous hearings are to be brought before them, in which case will open a new file on the topic that is to be uninfluenced by the previous file that has been struck from record.
The Cronese Mandate votes In Favor of such action to ensure a stable and operational Ethics Committee.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 0:11 AM | Message # 2 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| There is no disarray or problem. I am Deputy Chair and Acting Chair, Mr Oswaldt is Vice Chair. I see no need for reform at all.
You're simply attempting to Rescue Mr Zarcaine's uncle from his arrest for Contempt of Senate. Another case of cronyism from the Cronese Mandate, what a shock!
No doubt you are also attempting to Protect Zarcaine from the investigation for lying to the Senate that awaits him on his return.
Naturally, I vote against. No Cronyism!
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 0:25 AM | Message # 3 |
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Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 111
Status: Offline
| Senator Ordan, I've noticed a few things in my time here, mainly the fact that you have a habit to shout "No Crionism, No Starism" and now "No Cronyism" phrases to shout and thump your chest to in order to frighten others into your way of thinking and have them vote for your stance least they be marked in your colorful excuses to vote against something. I've not met Moff Verilia, and yet you are claiming that I'm trying to save him. How does one go about saving someone that they've never spoken to in such a matter as you are claiming. Although I'm surprised to see that you're voting against this proposal while claiming and shouting "No Cronyism" merely because you have a vendetta against the Cronese Mandate for no apparent reason, other than claiming that everyone that isn't on your side is a criminal or against you. I've grown tired of stepping into these halls and hearing you shout about "No Crionism, No Starism" and now making up "No Cronyism" merely so you can gather others to your cause by misrepresenting one thing as another.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 0:52 AM | Message # 4 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| I call it as I see it Mr Goodchild. And it is patently apparent that policy of the Cronese Mandate seems to be hugely coincidentally in the interests of the Uncle of it's former Senator.
I have no vendetta against the Mandate, indeed I have nothing but pity and sympathy at being ruled by a government who apparently are so little concerned with their welfare and remarkably interested in attempting to rescue corrupt officials from their legal fate.
Furthermore you do not rebut my argument that you are talking nonsense - the Ethics Committee is fully functional and there's simply a Chairman taking a leave of absense. I hasten to add that the Senate does not have the power to choose Chairmen for Committees, that is the role of the Chair.
Discharging the present Ethics Committee would be a wholly unethical and political decision made for expediency. The Ethics Committee has never reported a perverse verdict and has been one of the most efficient committies within the Empire. Essentially you dislike me and Governor Oswaldt, but are not considering our performance and rather acting on prejudice.
Also if I may quote youQuote (Mr_Goodchild) Section IV
Previous hearings of the Ethics Committee will be struck from record, and it will be at the discretion of the new Ethics Committee, if previous hearings are to be brought before them, in which case will open a new file on the topic that is to be uninfluenced by the previous file that has been struck from record.
What reason is there to strike present Ethics Committee rulings off the record? The only possible reason could be an attempt to extract the corrupt Moff Verilia from his inevitable fall from grace.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 1:34 AM | Message # 5 |
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Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 111
Status: Offline
| Senator Ordan, are you listening to yourself. It is very much within the Senate's power to choose a Chairman for Committees. Was the Senate the one that originally approved of the creation of the Ethic's committee, was it not the one whom originally appointed the chair of the Ethics Committee, and is it not current thinking over the removal of the chair of another Committee. To stand and say the Senate does not have the power to chose a chair for a Committee, is to say that the Senate doesn't have the power to form a committee. Is it the possibility that you will lose your seat and power with in the Committee is why you are voting against this proposal.
Senators, I'd like to point out a few facts though about the Ethics Committee. It is currently looking into an Imperial Moff. Allow me to say that again, an Imperial Moff. Is no one else disturbed by the fact that a Committee has decided that it has the right to call into question the decisions made by Emperor Palpatine in the choice of those whom he names Moffs of his Empire. Not only has the Committee taken upon itself to question our Emperor, it has also turned the "hearing" into a mockery. The hearing in question has become a chaotic event, and yet we are to believe that the Committee isnt out of control, when it cant even keep a single hearing together, let alone have decided that it has the right to question the Emperor's decisions.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 1:49 AM | Message # 6 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| Mr Goodchild, if you will note the Chair of the Senate has not expressed dissatisfaction with our investigation of Mr Verilia. Perhaps this is also a reflection of the Emperor's will! Observe how atrociously the Moff has acted (if you view the transcripts of the investigation so far) he has undoubtedly attempted to corrupt many Imperial Senators and other Imperial officials to save his nephew from a censure..
Now his nephew's successor is attempting to save him from the Ethics Committee... Strange that? I would also like to add that Governor Oswaldt and I are beings who have always been the most loyal to the Empire and have never wavered in that commitment - unlike Moff Verilia who has been seen to offer to sell information to Hutts!
He then stormed out of a hearing and refused to return (textbook contempt of Senate).
Regarding the Committee Chairman business, I have checked the records and it appears Committee Chairmen are appointed by the Chair of the Senate (representing the Emperor), the senate is free to nominate candidates but these are not binding on the Chair or His Majesty.Added (22 Nov 2011, 1:49 Am)
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Note the Chair of the Ethics Committee was appointed by His Majesty. Not the Senate.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
Message edited by Senator_Ordan - Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 1:47 AM |
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 1:57 AM | Message # 7 |
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Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 111
Status: Offline
| Senator Ordan, what information are you talking about. I assume that you're talking about the information that is available to anyone on the public holonet, and yet you act as if this information where something hush hush that no one knew about.
*Mr. Goodchild would then produce a datapad which was handed to him by the aide with him as he pulled up the information on the vessels, the information that Senator Ordan was referencing.*
Do you see Senator Ordan, the very same information that was being sold, is the very same that I could pull up in five minutes with a simple search. If anything a Moff should be congratulated for making money off the Hutts by merely selling them information that they themselves could have gotten if they took the time to also search the public holonet for the information they sought. As for your boast that nothing has been said about your investigation into an Imperial Moff, are you sure that it is the Emperor's will as you have claimed, for I'm sure that the Emperor decides what is his own will and would be displeased with you claiming him not speaking on the matter as his will. Just as I'm sure the Emperor has much more pressing matters than to take notice of the actions of a Committee, after all, he does have an Empire to rule.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 2:05 AM | Message # 8 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| Quote (Mr_Goodchild) I've not met Moff Verilia, and yet you are claiming that I'm trying to save him.
Amazing you are now rallying to his defense! I thought you were a disinterested third party and not a crony of his.. strange that. I think this paints a very clear picture for my fellow senators.
Anyway, I believe it is safe to say that the Committee is free to investigate Sector Governors - how else would we have accountability? I do not propose that it has the power to remove them - it does not have the power to remove anyone - it does however have the power to make suggestions to the Senate. Appointed or not, the man has acted in a wantonly corrupt manner, mixed business with government and acted in contempt of the Senate - behaviours I hardly think the Emperor smiles upon.
Is the Senate supports those suggestions, it would be the Emperor and his duly appointed officials who would have the final say over the outcome. Either way, if the Grand Vizier requested it, the Committee would gladly bow to his will. It should be noted that the investigation was requested in open senate by Senator Oriel and the decision to investigate was made by Chairman Youngblood, a decision I stand by as Acting Chair. The Chair was sitting when this request was made and has not made any statement of opposition.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 2:44 AM | Message # 9 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
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| To me this looks like a reprimand of the committee.
Can you provide some more examples of where you believe they have acted poorly?
I realise they are controversial Senators, many of us would agree with that. But they don't appear to have conducted themselves in office in a way which is inappropriate.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 10:16 AM | Message # 10 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 250
Status: Offline
| I'm not understanding what the point of this is? Why scrap the Ethics Committee to "save" it? There's nothing wrong with it. If it seems that way, it's because we've had one hearing which a corrupt Moff has done everything in his power to obstruct and delay. Point your accusations of "disorder" and "dismay" at him. Moff Verilia has wasted the Committee's time having to explain to him that yes, he has to testify, yes, he has to swear an oath to tell the truth, yes, he has to answer the questions he's asked. He's refused to do all these things and made a painless affair into a long and painful one. He's dragged and stomped his feet, and now he's stormed out entirely. Moff Verilia is your culprit, Mr. Goodchild. He's the one who's made a mockery of ethics, not just in his behavior to the Committee but his behavior as a Moff and a businessman. You should be supporting our investigation into him, not hindering it even more with this ridiculous motion that seeks to fire us all and wipe the Verilia hearing from the record and let him off the hook.
I also find it highly suspicious that your spending a considerable amount of your remarks defending Moff Verilia though you claim this has nothing to do with him. Should we expect any better from the Cronies Mandate? Apparently not. As for this business about whether a Moff should be investigated, ordinarily I'd say no. I'm an Imperial Governor after all. But here we're dealing with a stain of a man who disgraces the position the Emperor appointed him to. He's a black hole into which ethics disappear. He is bringing shame on himself and on the Empire, bribing pirates and cutting secret deals with Hutts and the rest of it. The fact the Empire hasn't discouraged us from investigating him tells me they feel the same way. I don't hear the Grand Vizier asking us not to investigate. I don't hear a single Moff asking us not to. Not a single Moff! Only you, Verilia's nephew's handpicked replacement in the Senate.
Senators, Mr. goodchild doesn't like us and maybe you don't like us, but we haven't done anything wrong. I don't mind having a knife twisted in my back if I deserve it, but tihs is ridiculous. I vote against.
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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| Verence_Terrawin | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 3:34 PM | Message # 11 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 285
Status: Offline
| Senators,
Personally, I strongly dislike Senator Ordan and Governor Oswaldt, they are men with whom I would prefer not to associate on a personal basis, due to them being somewhat militant in their views. Within the Senate they are considered "hard line" although this is perhaps understandable as they could be said to represent their constituents who are equally "hard line".
Now, while I strongly dislike them and their political views, I do not believe they have acted inappropriately as members of the Ethics Committee. And that is what one has to look at here, we have to look past personal prejudices and ask ourselves "Have they done their jobs as committee members well and morally?" and the answer is yes.
They have, in a small way, acted courageously. Few Senators would have the nerve to call to account a Moff for his crimes, but despite the difficulties imposed by Moff Verilia's repeated noncooperation, they have succeeded in unveiling some of the atrocious crimes he has committed, crimes which would make a Hutt blanche. Above all. I hate corruption and I believe these men have been effective in fighting corruption.
This motion truly makes me doubt whether the Cronese Mandate is able to disentangle itself from the interests of the Verilia-Kuriyoshi family, for I am certainly astonished to see a new representative present legislation which is a "get out of jail free card" for the corrupt uncle of his disgraced predecessor. I am also astonished this motion seeks to penalise Mr Youngblood for what has been an excellent tenure as Chair of the Committee, in which we have seen him act effectively and decisively on a number of issues.
I believe it is wrong to stab men who have not acted wrongly in the back. I also believe it is wrong to try and allow a corrupt criminal to worm his way out of justice. Furthermore, I believe that the Senate needs to consider the issue of representation in the Cronese Mandate and whether it is appropriate to withdraw Robeir's right to keep nominating candidates which can only be described as "nepotistic" and "corrupt" to the chamber to represent Moff Verilia. Perhaps as he has failed, it would be suitable to make the position directly elected instead.
Furthermore, Mr Goodchild should note that the Ethics Committee chair is appointed by the Emperor, and he is only empowered to make humble suggestions as to the candidate for the role.
Verence Terrawin
Senator of Alsakan
First Lord of the Foreign Office, Alsakan
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| Draken_Turot | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 4:12 PM | Message # 12 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 258
Status: Offline
| Cronism will be the death of us all! What is even more insulting is that Mr. Goodchild, is attempting to remove someone that his Royal Highness, the Great Emperor Palpatine has appointed! Shame on your, sir! Shame on you indeed! Just because your region of the galaxy was subject to an ideology that dangers the Empire's very way of life does NOT mean you have to follow suit! The committee is fine with the members it has; Senator Ordan is a fine example of what it is to lead! Governor Oswaldt demonstrates not only what it is to be a great being as Senator Ordan, but also shows how spending time on your mustash can lead to greatness! This is the Cronese Mandate attempting to obviously show it's attempt to poison our perfect system! Acherin votes against such a measure!
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:01 PM | Message # 13 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 379
Status: Offline
| Garos IV has never been in favor of the Ethics Committee from the start. Garos only agrees with the selection of a few current members of the committee, and finds the others to be quite questionable in their dealings. Garos does vote in favor of the reformation of this committee however, finding those who would be in charge to be most agreeable.
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:10 PM | Message # 14 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| Do you have even one example Senator Cerra of "questionable" actions committee members have carried out in the course of their duty?
I believe not. As usual you are just siding with the opposite side to me for its own sake, rather than seeing the injustice you are voting for. Do you think a corrupt Moff should escape investigation? I would not be surprised.
I urge liberal senators to not be blinded by their personal distaste for myself or Governor Oswaldt and to consider the good work we have done and the good work which will go to waste if this unjust act is allowed to pass.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
Message edited by Senator_Ordan - Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:13 PM |
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:17 PM | Message # 15 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 891
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| I would not say that they are questionable actions by the committee members while doing their jobs as a committee. Rather, questionable actions by the committee members in general. It is well known that certain members of the Ethics Committee are sexist and speciesist, but that has not and should not have any impact on their ability to investigate corruption.
If such actions were to become known, however, while an investigation was being done, then I think there would be reason to worry about some reformation. I will admit that some diversity in the members of the committee would not hurt, but I do not think it necessary to scrap the entire idea and start over.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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