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A New Mandate for the Cronese
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| Robeir_XXII | Date: Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 0:13 AM | Message # 16 |
 Lieutenant
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| So you openly admit Senator Oriel that you'd rather tie up the Emperor's funds, and personnel just to install a new mandate, rather than amend the Mandate which you've still not answered my question in what you'd specifically like to see changed. You'll also notice as per the title that has been handed down through the Robeir line of the House of Cron, that the Mandate is ruled as a client state, by myself as a client king. The Cronese Mandate also makes up for the bulk of the wealth that is exported from the Tion Cluster. To "install" a new Mandate as this bill, and as you've said, would not only disrupt that flow of wealth, it would stifle it in the quagmire that would follow with putting a new Mandate in place.
Head of the House of Cron
Ruler of the Cronese Mandate
Message edited by Robeir_XXIII - Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 0:14 AM |
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 0:36 AM | Message # 17 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
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| Is the Cronese Mandate part of the Empire then?
The Emperor's funds? There would be little to no cost at all! Just replacing one Mandate (essentially just a document) with another better one, I can't see where any Imperial money or people are needed? You're simply chatting nonsense I am afraid.
As your Senator has strenuously pointed out - you have most of these rules in place. How is reinforcing these rules with an entrenchment of those principles into a new Mandate a problem?
Opposition for opposition's sake seems to be the policy (all to typical of minor royalty). What you mean is, "things are great for me right now" and what you fear is "this new document may make things worse for me". I can assure you Robeir, there is no chance your position or that of your sector will be worsened.
By voicing strong political opinions against simple codification and reform you are risking alienating yourself from your people. As Senator Fitzgerald points out this document is excellent for both you and your people. What possible (logical) opposition do you have? And please do yourself some justice and don't repeat this tired canard of "it will cost money" - everything costs money but this will not cost very much money and will pay itself of a thousand times in the benefits.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Robeir_XXII | Date: Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 0:46 AM | Message # 18 |
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Lieutenant
Group: Users
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| The Cronese Mandate is part of the Empire in the same sense that all client states are members of the Empire. How is proposing a document that is essentially a copy of what is already in effect making things better, and not once have I saidQuote (Bernard_Oriel) "things are great for me right now" Quote (Bernard_Oriel) "this new document may make things worse for me".
Head of the House of Cron
Ruler of the Cronese Mandate
Message edited by Robeir_XXIII - Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 0:46 AM |
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 0:48 AM | Message # 19 |
 Lieutenant colonel
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| As it would appear that Senator Oriel would rather dodge the questions of what he'd specifically wish to see changed, compared to merely introducing a new system to replace one that isn't broken, the Cronese Mandate will continue to Abstain from voting on this Bill.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 0:59 AM | Message # 20 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
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| *Oriel chuckled to himself, it was quite remarkable that Robeir didn't understand that Oriel was summarizing the thoughts which clearly were going through Robeir's mind, not quoting him. Robeir truly was the result of some "interesting" breeding in his ancestors.*
If I may quote Senator Fitzgerald
Quote (Eli_Fitzgerald) It's one of the most enlightened governing documents I've seen since the rise of the Empire and a strong statement for personal liberty.
Here, allow me to read you the definition of codification (what this act's main role is).
Quote (The Galactic Dictionary) cod·i·fi·ca·tion [kod-uh-fi-key-shuhn, koh-duh-]
noun
1.
the act, process, or result of arranging in a systematic form or code.
2.
Law .
a.
the act, process, or result of stating the rules and principles applicable in a given legal order to one or more broad areas of life in this form of a code.
b.
the reducing of unwritten customs or case law to statutory form.
To put it in the most simple, unambiguous terms: this act is needed to bring all the current legislation together with statements of principle.
Thus I propose this new Mandate because if the law is codified then it means there is a strong document for which the people of the Mandate can rely on. Even if there are many good laws in effect in the Mandate they are separate laws, and I believe protecting the rights of everyone in a new Mandate is fair, just, and sensible.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
Message edited by Bernard_Oriel - Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 1:00 AM |
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 1:15 AM | Message # 21 |
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Lieutenant colonel
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| Senator Oriel, it is clear that you've no experience in the Mandate at all. There are laws, and those laws are bound together in the Mandate Charter, that was signed and agreed to by the Cronese Mandate Senate. This bill which you've propose and claim would bind the laws of the Mandate together, which they already are, has shown nothing less than being redundant and unneeded. The people of the Cronese Mandate are protected by the laws of the Cronese Mandate, and by the Imperial laws. This bill continues to show more and more that there is a personal reason behind this, and not just being done for the people. The People of the Cronese Mandate already have strong statements for personal liberty, they are loyal Imperial subjects of an Imperial Client State that is loyal to the Emperor and the Empire.
I've also noticed that now for the fourth time, and I'm sure that it's safe to say, for the coming fifth time, that you've ducked the questions of what do you specifically wish to see changed in the Cronese Mandate. Introducing a bill and continuing to focus on its redundancy and claiming that it is for the people when it merely copies and states what has been established for the people already is a useless bill, made even more useless when you are unable to directly answer what you wish to see changed. The greater concern though is that instead of giving suggestions to the Cronese Mandate, you rather attempt to point out flaws that do not exist and replace a system that is not broken, nor in need of repair.
It is for the personal nature that this document, and your own silence, has brought up that the Cronese Mandate will be changing its vote, and will be voting against this Bill. The Cronese Mandate does not need a new Mandate, and should one be needed, it will be crafted by the people of the Cronese Mandate, and handed to the Imperial Ruling council for their consideration. I would suggest, for all your claiming that this is for the betterment of the Cronese people, that perhaps you should spend more time on seeing to the needs and betterment of your own people on Vjun, rather than imposing what you believe is right on other Sectors and Worlds.
Of course the Cronese Mandate is always willing to help a neighbor in need, and would have no problem with helping the people of Vjun, provided that they agree to a new Charter that would abolish the overly opulent 1% upper class that seems to rule the world, so that those other 99% of free men and serfs that continue to be stuck in the dirt may be raise to a higher and equal station.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
Message edited by Mr_Goodchild - Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 1:19 AM |
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Wednesday, 11 Jan 2012, 1:30 AM | Message # 22 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
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| To summarize the Cronese position "we oppose strengthening the rights of our people because we think it is a personal attack on us".
100% Logical, 100% Reasonable, 100% Robeir XXII foreign policy.
To answer - the change I would like to see is a strong and entrenched constitutional document which protects the rights of the people. Please do not make me read out the definitions of any long words there.
To codify is not useless. Redundancy is not always a bad thing when it comes to rights, let them be protected by as many layers of law as possible. You have (for the fifth time apparently) ignored my answer.
Although for some more "technical" points on which I believe this act is right:
- The House of Cron is not mentioned under the new Mandate - I don't think the King's family should have any special perks or powers above private citizens.
- This Act protects Imperial citizens or others (in principle) - your answer was "we don't discriminate against Imperial citizens". My point is that you should not in principle be able to do so, and so I propose legislation to protect them.
I could go through point by point but I think the Act speaks for itself. It is a document protecting the rights of the Emperor's citizens, opposition to that is opposition to their rights and being against adding another layer of protection to those rights.
I believe your people may judge you harshly for opposing their rights and freedoms, but that is your choice to make.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Saturday, 14 Jan 2012, 3:20 PM | Message # 23 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
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| As there appears to be no further discussion, the measure passes with 67% in favor and 33% opposed, however with a large number of abstentions; among them, Ralltiir, Chandrila, and the Empress Teta system. Bearing in mind my earlier commentary on this measure, it will be construed as an endorsement of a new mandate that the Emperor and his Ruling Council will consider. Of course, I'll keep the principal Senators informed of the Council's deliberations on this matter and I suspect it will be resolved soon.
On an unrelated scheduling note, Senators, I will announce the Emperor's selection for Chairman of the Defense Committee on the last day of this month, before we adjourn this session of the Senate. The decision has not been finalized and your actions over the ensuing weeks may have a bearing on it. But for now, let us move on to other matters.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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