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A Bill Affirming the People's Power to Remove... (continued)
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| Draken_Turot | Date: Wednesday, 22 Feb 2012, 4:30 PM | Message # 16 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 258
Status: Offline
| The Empire is the dominate, ruling authority in the galaxy! Acherin is in favor!
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| Toben-Domon | Date: Thursday, 23 Feb 2012, 10:47 AM | Message # 17 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 347
Status: Offline
| I agree with Senator Kirkwood's assessment. This bill has the power to work too broadly. Unless constrained slightly, I cannot in good confidence, vote for it. I am against.
Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
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| Eli_Fitzgerald | Date: Monday, 27 Feb 2012, 11:21 PM | Message # 18 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 355
Status: Offline
| I vote against this. If this is a power the Empire already has, why are we "affirming" it? And not as a resolution but a law, no less? Obviously I don't support "traitors" remaining in power, as Senator Cambrist put it. But as Senator Kirkwood and Senator Domon said, there's something odd about singling out monarchy in this. Lately, it seems increasingly that a "traitor" is in the eye of the beholder, but a traitor needn't be a monarch and this bill seems to imply, in some sense, that they're one in the same. I disagree with Senator Domon only in that, if anything, this measure should be more broad, and include not just monarchs who happen to be traitors but all traitors, period. But isn't this already the law?
(Whatever "traitor" or "anti-Imperial" or "delinquent" actually means, incidentally).
Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)
"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Tuesday, 28 Feb 2012, 11:15 AM | Message # 19 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Treason is a crime, it is not "in the eye of the beholder." To be anti-Imperial is to oppose an Imperial policy or principle. To be delinquent, as the measure says, means a "failure to enforce Imperial decrees or meet taxation quotas, etc." I recommend that Senator Fitzgerald and the other Senators who oppose this measure actually read it before casting a vote.
I've already explained why I've made the monarchy distinction. I've explained it here and elsewhere. I refuse to be so tiresome as to repeat myself. Again, I implore you, read.
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Thursday, 22 Mar 2012, 5:37 AM | Message # 20 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| Naturally Reuke, my distaste for Monarchy is well known unless it is the Providential Monarchy of his Imperial Majesty. Thus I feel prompted to vote in favour of this motion. If they are considered treasonous they should be removed.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
Message edited by Senator_Ordan - Thursday, 22 Mar 2012, 5:38 AM |
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Thursday, 29 Mar 2012, 12:10 PM | Message # 21 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| The vote remains tied. Are there any additional Senators willing to come forward to vote on this? This year's session of the Senate will be gaveled to a close at the conclusion of our current business, so I'd like to close this vote as soon as possible. If necessary, of course, I will break the tie myself.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Thursday, 29 Mar 2012, 2:07 PM | Message # 22 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 353
Status: Offline
| Dantooine must against this motion. While the Empire is the legally dominate form of Government in the galaxy, I believe that there should be checks and balances against how much power the Empire can wield, especially in matters where some planetary cultures indeed run the risk of being de-moralized, due to planets that have had their one monarch since the birth of the Old Republic.
Message edited by Exar_Ray - Thursday, 29 Mar 2012, 2:08 PM |
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| Augusta_Aurelius | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 10:02 PM | Message # 23 |
 Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 109
Status: Offline
| I believe we have a majority vote, and have reached the point in which the passage of this bill is impossible. I motion that the vote on this legislation be closed.
Augusta Aurelius
Queen Conosrt of Deralia
Chair of the Human Rights Monitoring and Crisis Resolution Sub-Committee of the Planetary Defense Committee
Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (30 BBY - 18 BBY, 10 BBY - Present)
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Monday, 02 Apr 2012, 10:14 AM | Message # 24 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I dispute your math, Senator Aurelius; the passage of this bill isn't "impossible" as there are quite a few Senators who haven't voted, and some who have voted with a clear misunderstanding of the bill. For instance, Senator Ray, the bill refers to monarchs, not monarchies. That is, a specific King or Queen of a planet, not that planet's entire monarchy—if the Empire removed a delinquent King or Queen, the planet can elect or select another one (no one has had "one monarch since the birth of the Old Republic"). It's true that I'm opposed to monarchy as a form of government, but that's not what this bill is about.
For this reason I ask that the chair oblige me in changing the name of this bill to "A Bill Affirming the People's Power to Remove Anti-Imperial Tyrants."
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Monday, 02 Apr 2012, 3:48 PM | Message # 25 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 891
Status: Offline
| Chandrila votes in favor of this bill. And also support the name change that Senator Cambrist has put forth. I also agree with Senator volFyr that perhaps something similar should extend to anyone in any form of planetary government who proves to be, ah, un-Imperial, as she suggested. But yes, that is perhaps for a separate proposal.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Avram_Kirkwood | Date: Tuesday, 03 Apr 2012, 8:34 PM | Message # 26 |
 Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 77
Status: Offline
| If you change the bill to the name you suggest Senator Cambrist, I believe you should table the bill in its current format and re-work it into something actually fitting the title. Now, were you to introduce a bill which targeted Anti-Imperial heads of state that had become tyrannical in their rule of their sovereignty, I believe you would be able to get far more of the Senate, including myself, to support it.
The Honorable Avram W. Kirkwood
Senator of the Cygnus Star Empire
General, Imperial Army (Ret.)
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Tuesday, 03 Apr 2012, 9:49 PM | Message # 27 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| This bill would include delinquent monarchs among other delinquent heads of state?
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Tuesday, 03 Apr 2012, 9:49 PM |
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| Avram_Kirkwood | Date: Tuesday, 03 Apr 2012, 9:51 PM | Message # 28 |
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Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 77
Status: Offline
| If such a bill were to include provisions for removing all heads of state for Anti-Imperial actions, rather than just monarchs, then you would have my support. As I said however, I believe such a bill should be presented to the Senate as a separate piece of legislation.
The Honorable Avram W. Kirkwood
Senator of the Cygnus Star Empire
General, Imperial Army (Ret.)
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Tuesday, 03 Apr 2012, 9:55 PM | Message # 29 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| So it would be a bill affirming the power of the Empire to disbar monarchs, if you will, and you would support it.
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| Avram_Kirkwood | Date: Tuesday, 03 Apr 2012, 10:18 PM | Message # 30 |
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Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 77
Status: Offline
| A bill affirming the power to remove all Anti-Imperial heads of state, including monarchs, yes.
The Honorable Avram W. Kirkwood
Senator of the Cygnus Star Empire
General, Imperial Army (Ret.)
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