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Recall of Senator Bernard Oriel
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Sunday, 09 Sep 2012, 10:15 AM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant general
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| Gentlebeings of the Senate,a number of defense-oriented bills have been proposed or passed and a number of new worlds have joined the Senate. The issue, however, lies with the fact that the current Chairman of the Defense Committee, Senator Bernard Oriel of Vjun, has been markedly absent as of late, both from the Defense Committee and from the Senate in general without any rhyme or reason, or even having left some notice.
As such, I request at this time that a vote be called to remove Senator Oriel as Chairman of the Defense Committee so that a suitable and more present replacement can be found.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Sunday, 09 Sep 2012, 10:54 AM | Message # 2 |
 Colonel general
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| Senator Ryuun, to be clear, you are proposing this not because of the job performed, but because the job is not being performed. If I recall correctly, Senator Oriel ousted Titus Veritas for the exact same reason.
Did you have a replacement in mind, Senator Ryuun? You know that someone is going to ask eventually...
Chandrila votes in favor.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Toben-Domon | Date: Sunday, 09 Sep 2012, 11:22 AM | Message # 3 |
 Major general
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| Senator Ryuun is correct; Senator Oriel has been absent for far too long. Sluis Van is highly in favor of this change.
Senator Thanatos, it is traditional for the new nominations to be held separately from such a matter as ousting the current holder of a position. I believe that we will have time for that once this is decided.
Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Sunday, 09 Sep 2012, 8:28 PM | Message # 4 |
 Major general
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| Correction, Senator Thanatos. It was I that braved the fire and called for the ousting of Senator Veritas from the Defense Committee. As much as it pains me to do this, Dantooine must go in favor of this, with the exception that if Senator Oriel can explain himself, he be allowed back into his position.
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Sunday, 09 Sep 2012, 8:31 PM | Message # 5 |
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Colonel general
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| My sincerest apologies, Senator Ray. I do remember Senator Oriel carrying a pitchfork, so to speak, during that whole thing, but I did not remember correctly who started it. My vote still stands, either way.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Tuesday, 11 Sep 2012, 8:48 PM | Message # 6 |
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| Senator,
I admit I have of late been some time absent from the Defense Committee and the Senate, this is due to the time spent recovering from consequences of old war wounds and the wound sustained during an attempt to negotiate with a band of Rogue Hapans some time ago. Naturally, though, I have been kept up to date with the day to day operation of the Committee and returned when matters have demanded it.
The Committee and myself are both well aware of the recent "Defense Related" bills, however, we have found it inappropriate to comment upon them as we feel the interests of neither Vjun nor the Empire was effected by them, official comment on behalf of the Defense Committee should only be made if the Committee adopts a position (that is to say, that the opinion is generally anything other than neutral) - it has held no decisive opinion on the recent defense legislation mentioned and so I have not expressed any opinion on their behalf.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Tuesday, 11 Sep 2012, 9:27 PM | Message # 7 |
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Lieutenant general
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| Senator Oriel, if I may quote from your speech when you were elected Chairman of the Defense Committee:
Quote "I fully intend that unlike under the Veritas regime that the Committee will enforce the law robustly and efficiently, we will scrutinize the actions of members of the Empire and where it is needed we will launch investigations"
Where has the Committee checked on new member worlds to the Senate, ensuring that all vessels follow the guidelines set forth in the numerous defense-related laws? Have any investigations been launched regarding any of the possible questions that have been brought before us? They have not. This is a severe lacking by the Defense Committee and even as Vice-chair, I am not empowered to open any investigations without the consent of the Chairman.
You have also stated that:
Quote Furthermore, we announce that the convention worlds to consulting (if not gaining the assent of) the Defense Committee before attempting new purchases will be reinstated, and the Defense Committee will be interested in examining each situation case by case to make suggestions.
A number of new member worlds have joined us, as well as purchased vessels, sold vessels and modified vessels without consultation of the Defense Committee. We have not even been asked to make suggestions and at this time, much as it pains me to say it, the Defense Committee has become stagnant, which leads me to a final quote from you:
Quote I would also like to state that I do believe it is a good thing to have new blood of the Defense Committee
It is time for new blood, Senator Oriel. I am not averse to seeing you upon the Defense Committee, but it needs a new Chairman.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Wednesday, 12 Sep 2012, 9:46 AM | Message # 8 |
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| Senator Ryuun,
I realize that yourself and powerful economic forces may be behind the idea of a shipyard world's representative controlling the Defense Committee. However, I believe that I myself am the best person for the job - and it's clear that there's a profound disagreement between us that cannot be resolved - I don't think the corporate lobby should be in charge of the Defense Committee.
I've been suffering from a wound suffered in the line of duty, I am (as of yesterday) returned to service and am able to continue a progressive and moderate drive for the committee that puts the Empire first and corporate interest second. As Vice Chairman of the Defense Committee have you ever requested I open a hearing? Especially during my medical absence? No, to my knowledge you have not.
The Defense Committee remains the most credible and independent advocate of Planetary Defense in the Senate - the fact the Committee (Nor it's Vice-Chairman, nor any of it's Members or Consultants) have requested any exceptional investigations or statements has resulted in those hearings not being held. The notion "we have not been asked to make suggestions" is a bunk one, if you have an idea it is your place as a member of the Committee to raise it.. The fact that you personally have not done so reflects only upon yourself.
Indeed Senator Ryuun, I have been on medical leave, as authorized by the terms of my Senate Service and that as a Committee Chairman, tell me, what is your excuse for not seeking extraordinary committee sessions (if you felt they were needed)?
I take the view that the Defense Committee does not need to nor should it directly comment on every matter, and having recently (prior to my medical leave) held a vigarous and controversial inquest into the application of Mr Stark to hold an Aurek-class License I fully intend to continue with my protection of the Empire, it's people and it's worlds from the depredations of run-away corporate profit seeking at the cost of their safety.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Avram_Kirkwood | Date: Wednesday, 12 Sep 2012, 2:08 PM | Message # 9 |
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| The Defense Committee is an integral part of the Senate, and the Empire. Countless worlds and individuals looks to it to guide their own defense policy, and when the Committee falls silent, it can prove to be a cause of chaos. As the Senator from Druckenwell has said, there were policy statements made, which were not followed up on. The Committee was not made aware or notified of your absence. You had disappeared with no warning, Senator. Yes, Senator Ryuun did not call any meetings himself, I believe you can forgive him for making a power play in such a fashion and instead follow the correct and proper procedure to this point. Should he have called the meetings himself? Yes. However, it is not his actions that are being considered here; it is yours.
I believe the most notable irony of this situation, is that you are facing a removal from your position for the exact same reasons that you tried, and failed, to remove former Senator Veritas, your predecessor, from the same position. Why do you feel that you are the exception to your own standards, Senator Oriel? I am only an advisor to the Committee, I have no power or authority in any legal sense, otherwise I would have acted where others did not, but even when you were present, the Defense Committee has become notable soft-spoken compared to Senator Veritas' committee.
Back to the issue at hand; yes, leave is authorized to you, but you gave zero notificaton to the Senate or the Committee or the Grand Vizier on the issue. Senator, I am one who values the unique point of view that you bring to the table on defense, and you surely focus in areas that others would ignore, however, why should you remain as Chair when you, yourself, have violated the standards to which you held your predecessor?
The Honorable Avram W. Kirkwood
Senator of the Cygnus Star Empire
General, Imperial Army (Ret.)
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Wednesday, 12 Sep 2012, 2:42 PM | Message # 10 |
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| Senator Kirkwood.
If I may address your points.
Firstly, the irony of the situation has not escaped me. However, I did not anticipate taking such an extended medical departure. I have a newfound appreciation for what Lord Veritas went through - however, allow me to assure the Senate that my absence has been merely due to a superficial bacterial infection in a poorly healed wound and not any long term problem once it was addressed.
The situation with Lord Veritas was his ailing health that appeared to have no end in sight; my primary objection. Not a simple two month period of absence at short notice. I should add that it was under the intructions of my Doctors not to pursue any work during my medical leave - something I kept up with; I'm unaware as to whether Lord Veritas was under a similar instruction.
I would like to take the opportunity to apologize if I ever criticized Lord Veritas for medical leave sustained as a result of injuries in the service of the Republic or Empire.
I apologize for not having informed members individually, however, during my leave - although as mentioned it was a pressing medical matter that manifested quickly and it was thought that attempting to continue the rigors of office during the time I was away would only prove detrimental. My office and deputy were always available for comment, however.
I realize, with hindsight, that failing to make yourselves more aware of the situation before I departed was a mistake - and crave humbly the forgiveness of the chamber for that mistake. It was however, a mistake, and does not reflect any bad faith on my part. I did criticise my predecessor for constant medical leave, and I hope that the Senate will agree with me just under two months does not consist of the same thing.
I would also like to remind the Chamber it was close to a half dozen major absences, as well as other major factors which produced the suggestion of Senator Veritas stepping down - I would ask the chamber to consider being forgiving of this one oversight and consider it an aberration in contrast to my long and productive legislative, executive and military history.
As was granted to Senator Veritas after his numerous medical leaves I am asking that the Senate is tolerant of my position and considers my extreme enthusiasm to continue in the position of Defense Committee Chairman. My eye is not dimmed, nor my natural force abated, I am returned with a program of progressive measures encouraging Peace, Prosperity and Justice within the Empire.
I'm open to granting the Vice-Chair powers to hold his own sessions under the Committee's oversight, and also to a procedure by which this type of unexpected absence does not result in a "power vacuum" or confusion.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Wednesday, 12 Sep 2012, 3:32 PM | Message # 11 |
 Lieutenant general
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| There is a significant amount of overlap of matters of commerce and planetary defense, and Senator Oriel, as Chairman of the Defense Committee, has been an insightful, clear-headed adviser to the Commerce Committee. Any consternation I've had at his absence is far surpassed with relief at his return. I was one of several Senators who variously proposed recalls of Senator Veritas as Chairman of the Defense Committee; I withdrew my proposal, however, when I learned of the medical reasons for the Senator's absence. Given that Senator Oriel's absence has been finite and far shorter than that of Senator Veritas, perhaps a withdrawal of this motion is not unwarranted especially in light of Senator Oriel's professional and contrite statement.
I would caution Senator Kirkwood against speaking too highly of Senator Veritas, however. His stewardship of the Defense Committee was characterized by the unusual and unhealthy degree of control he himself exercised over the Committee and its policy. Senator Oriel has made a point of including many voices (including yours and Senator Ryuun's) on the Defense Committee, and hasn't used his position as Senator Veritas did to the advantage of his homeworld, Deralia. Senator Veritas also killed more legislation than he proposed, using the Committee as a wrecking ball to demolish fresh, new ideas and any legislation critical of Deralia. Senator Oriel, in contrast, remains the most prolific Senator despite his absence. None of us have originated more legislation than he has, much of it reinforcing the foundations of the Empire's defense policy. Senator Oriel as Chairman of the Defense Committee has been far better for planetary defense than his predecessor, who, furthermore, waged inter-planetary war and lied to the Senate about it.
It may be useful to consider the entirety of the present circumstance before casting a vote in support of this motion.Added (12 Sep 2012, 3:32 PM)
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I, for one, vote against.
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| Draken_Turot | Date: Wednesday, 12 Sep 2012, 5:31 PM | Message # 12 |
 Major general
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| Acherin votes against such an act!!! Senator Oriel is the most patriotic man to grace these chambers as well as being able to get the Defense Committee back on course!!!
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Wednesday, 12 Sep 2012, 5:44 PM | Message # 13 |
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Major general
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| Sadly, I cannot continue to vote in favor of this seeing as how Senator Oriel is one of the strongest contenders that we have had in a while. While my vote for the ousting of the former Defense Chairman did indeed serve it's purpose, I am glad that Senator Oriel has taken the mantle and ran with it. I vote against.
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Friday, 14 Sep 2012, 2:05 AM | Message # 14 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
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| Senator Oriel,
Senator Kirkwood brings a number of valid arguments to the table when he speaks of these matters. If I may be so bold, your office and your deputy should have informed us; we should not have need to seek out the knowledge of your medical ailments. While I can sympathize with your personal situation, as you are correct that Senator Veritas was indeed granted a number of medical leaves, I would suggest that in the future, your office remain in better contact with those of us on the Committee so that we can be better served while you are absent.
That being said, I have looked over the bill proposed by yourself to allow the Committee to operate within your absence. I would see one further item added, though. Senator Kirkwood is a valuable asset to the Defense Committee. His technical expertise to the Committee is unparallelled. I would see him raised to a full position within the Committee so as to be able to have a voice within our proceedings. Were this to be done, I would feel much better about withdrawing this motion and returning to business much more swiftly.
My aim is not to make a power play for your position, Senator Oriel. It is to see that the Defense Committee is run smoothly and without any failing across all of our positions. Were I to take an extended leave without notification, I would expect to be replaced outright due to a lack of communication. I would not fault you for that decision, either. However, I am willing to accept the adjustments you have proposed, allowing as well for Senator Kirkwood's full status.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Saturday, 15 Sep 2012, 7:21 AM | Message # 15 |
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Colonel general
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| It is not the policy of myself nor my Committee to horse trade seats for Senatorial motions to be withdrawn; I am shocked you would even suggest it.
I am frankly appalled at this extremely unethical attempt to cajole members onto the Defense Committee and would like to formally express my concern at this flagrant ethical violation to the Chair of the Senate.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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