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Motion to Censure
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| Crin_Star | Date: Saturday, 23 Oct 2010, 6:03 PM | Message # 1 |
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Major general
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| Crin didn't like being the one to do this but no one else had and this was a chance for her that she couldn't pass up. Even as she rose and took the floor with the permission of the chair her body language betrayed nothing of her true feelings on the matter. "Senators, I believe we have all heard the speech given in these chambers the other day by Representative Crion and as the chair said such language can not and will not be tolerated against the Empire. As such it is now this bodies solemn duty to censure the Representative for his remarks in the hopes that perhaps someone more honest about the empire may take his place here in the senate. As such I now put forward the motion to censure Representative Crion from this body."
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Saturday, 23 Oct 2010, 6:29 PM | Message # 2 |
 Major general
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| Ja’nar would rise to her feet, as always she kept her calm and collected demeanor as she stepped up to the podium within her pod.
“I apologize, but I cannot agree to this motion.” She would take in a deep breath of air before she began to speak once again, “Representative Crion was exercising his freedom of speech within this chamber. If we are not allowed to speak our minds without fear we will be unable to pass laws that truly help the people we represent. Representative Crion was speaking his mind; he was expressing his frustration with what has been happening recently within this body. Can we blame him for this frustration? I cannot. Our freedom of speech is one of the basic freedoms that all sentient beings are entitled to. We cannot punish one for speaking his mind whether we like what is said or not. For that reason, I vote against this motion of censure against Representative Crion.”
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Taja_Lohden | Date: Saturday, 23 Oct 2010, 6:54 PM | Message # 3 |
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| With respect, Senator Cerra, he was speaking his own opinions, not necessarily those of the people he represents, and certainly not with the good of the people in his heart.
Representative Crion brought to the chamber a litany of filth and self-serving ideals which have done, and will do, no favours for the people nor himself. I am not sure what his motives were, other than to sow dissent and spread sedition among the Senate, and therefore I must vote in favour of Senator Star's motion.
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Saturday, 23 Oct 2010, 11:48 PM | Message # 4 |
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| Senator Cerra, please, use a bit more discretion in those with whom you make common cause. Even if you are inclined to be sympathetic to Representative Crion and his words, surely you must agree that the crass manner in which he delivered those words is not appropriate for this or any legislative body. Had he spoken these words in the Old Republic, which he so loves, I have no doubt that it would have censured him too. Senator Lohden, as ever, is right—the Representative's speech was self-serving and provocative. A public figure simply cannot conduct himself in such a vulgar way. It is demeaning to the Imperial Senate, it is demeaning to us all, it is demeaning to the people he represents, and it is demeaning to himself. As a Representative in the Imperial Senate, Mr. Crion is (or has been) a powerful man. He has influence, as do we all. But in choosing to demean the very government that his people sent him here to participate in, he has renounced democracy. He has renounced the influence that his people entrusted to him in good faith, and he has implied that this Senate is a useless institution—that there is nothing to be gained from discussion and debate. That words, indeed, do not matter. Senators, I take strong, strong exception to this. Words do matter, and Mr. Crion chose his poorly. There are ways that he could have expressed his frustration in an adult manner, and he chose not to do so. As far as I'm concerned, it was a resignation speech. Anyone who truly has respect for democracy and believes in the ability of the Imperial Senate to bring about democratic change should vote in favor of this censure, as I do. If you do not believe this, why are you here? With Senator Star's permission, however, I would like to suggest that if Representative Crion withdraws his remarks and apologizes for them, his suspension will be lifted. If, however, he does not do this within a reasonable amount of time, say, a standard week, then his permanent removal from this body shall take prompt effect.
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Sunday, 24 Oct 2010, 3:02 AM | Message # 5 |
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| We need to at least try to see his perspective for once. Some freedoms were sacrificed for the security of the Galactic Empire. I'm pretty sure this would drive some people insane. In Representative Crion's mind, he probably couldn't handle the pressure anymore. If Grand Vizier is indeed correct about the man being ill, then this could be the result of it. Now I'm not saying that it's wrong to sacrifice some freedoms for the security of the Galactic Empire, because I believe it's necessary to ensure a safe galaxy. But at what cost? I believe all this has overwhelmed the Representative to the point where he couldn't handle his duties anymore. His duties is stressful, as is every single one of us in the Senate. It does get to some people. Which is why I am sympathetic to him, despite his accusations toward me and a few other Senators. I agree with the Grand Vizier's decision to suspend him from the body indefinitely, but I wouldn't write him off just yet. I believe that in the duration of his suspension, Representative Crion would seek counseling and rehab himself to recovery. Only then the Grand Vizier could lift the suspension, providing that he deemed the Representative appropriate enough to continue his duties in the Imperial Senate. Once again, I support the Grand Vizier's decision to suspend him, but I wouldn't support censuring him from the Senate. I do not believe he would sow dissent and spread sedition in the Senate as Senator Lohden had suggested. I am asking the Senate to give Representative Crion a chance to see the error of his ways and reform. Because I am willing to give him a chance to correct himself, I vote against censuring him from the Senate. Which is why I agree with Senator Cambrist's suggestion that Representative Crion be given a chance to apologize for his actions.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Sunday, 24 Oct 2010, 4:09 AM | Message # 6 |
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| I tend to agree with Senators Cabrist and Fowlkes. Senator Crion must have been under some kind of duress and was certainly only thinking of his civil liberties as well as others. Are these kinds of issues not what this chamber is for and represents? I am also voting against censuring him from the senate.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Sunday, 24 Oct 2010, 6:06 AM | Message # 7 |
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Major general
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| I feel as if voting in favor of this act to vote against democracy and democratic change. People become caught up in the moment, especially when they feel they have been wronged. Are we all not passionate about something? Do we not all become passionate when we feel an injustice is being made? Perhaps the rest in this body do not, for you make broad generalizations that if one does not vote in favor for this or that, they they are unpatriotic, unloyal to the Empire, or undemocratic in some way. The point of democracy is that everyone’s voice is heard whether you agree with it or not. I am starting to believe that you, Senator Cambrist, wish for all of us to become mindless drones to the Empire. To not be able to think for ourselves and make our own choices. Representative Crion was asking us, those who serve the people of our planets to truly listen to our people's voices, to allow our people to sway our minds and hearts, not other senators or favors we may gain by voting in agreeance to this or that. I see nothing wrong with that. His story was a story of struggle and breaking a cycle of poverty. Shall we condemn a man for a moment of passion? A moment where all common sense left him and he spoke from his heart. To protect democracy and our personal liberties we must vote AGAINST this motion. If not for ourselves in the future, for the future our children will inherit from us. Do we to live galaxy where a person who speaks their mind is ostracized?
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Taja_Lohden | Date: Sunday, 24 Oct 2010, 8:41 AM | Message # 8 |
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Lieutenant
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| Senator Cerra, I believe you have driven straight to the point of the matter; Representative Crion's 'common sense left him', and as you say, he became caught up in the moment. Can this really, from a professional standpoint, be tolerated? His speech was damaging, and as the public face and voice of the Tapani Freeworlds he could have condemned his people to suspicion of dissent against this very governing body. I pray this isn't the case, and that he genuinely was speaking his own mind, because we simply cannot afford a schism at the heart of the Empire at this point in time, when we've finally begun to consolidate our strength in the freedom from war. The Imperial Senate is no place to air such unprofessional and, to be frank, such dire opinions, nor is it a forum for people to vent steam and seek popularity by proposing radical schemes against the tried and tested methods which have unified us.
I, and the people of Kaal, ask that the Senate take heed of the words of myself, Senator Cambrist, and Senator Star. A public apology is necessary, to begin repairing the damage that will undoubtedly be caused by Crion's slanting remarks. You already have my vote on this matter, Senators, but I'd feel I was abandoning my duties if I didn't refute any claim that Representative Crion's actions could possibly be for anything but his own motives.
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Sunday, 24 Oct 2010, 8:06 PM | Message # 9 |
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| To boot Mr. Crion from his position within the Imperial Senate might be a hasty move, though I do think that it was very un-professional of him to spew such statements in public. If he really was concerned, he would of spoken with the Chair of the Senate in private. Though Mr. Crion is a good man, I vote against this motion, but my vote will change by the end of the week should Mr. Crion refuse to apologize to those he offended in his speech.
Message edited by Exar_Ray - Sunday, 24 Oct 2010, 8:08 PM |
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 0:17 AM | Message # 10 |
 Lieutenant general
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| Senators, Senators. I only ask this, and primarily of Senators Ray, Fowlkes, Cerra and Thanatos: are you mad? If you'll pardon my extreme language, but has a bantha defecated upon your brains?! Senator Crion's words are slander against the great Empire which we assist and serve! How can you so easily argue that free speech covers such a thing? Yes, free speech is free speech, but there is a certain limit! If one of you insults me here, or makes jests of me, I shall return the slight in kind. Can you expect any different from a ruling body? I vote in favor of censure.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Toben-Domon | Date: Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 0:19 AM | Message # 11 |
 Major general
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| Revolting. Disgusting. Senators... you have let me down. Sluis Van votes in favor of censure as well.
Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 10:03 AM | Message # 12 |
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Major general
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| Senator Ryuun, before you start making childish remarks, maybe you should learn how to listen.
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 12:23 PM | Message # 13 |
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Major general
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| Senator Ryuun, I understand that you do not have the distinct pleasure of listening to yourself speak but you speak in contradictions. To limit free speech is to not have free speech. Do you not see that? If we can pick and choose were one has free speech than we are removing their freedom of speech. Representative Crion spoke harsh words, yes. But he was respectful. He did not become vulgar in his speech. He spoke his mind and if anywhere in the Empire should have freedom of speech; it should be within this body. We become inflamed and passionate about topics, we must be able to express ourselves, as long as we do it in a respectful manner and I personally do not see anything truly disrespectful in his speech. One could call of censure on you Senator Ryuun for constantly calling others traitors when they do not agree with you. Perhaps it is time to take away your freedom of speech first, to see how much you enjoy it. I am still against this motion, if for nothing, for the freedom of speech for all sentient beings within the Empire.
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Crin_Star | Date: Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 4:26 PM | Message # 14 |
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Major general
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| Crin would move to rise up once again to address the senate on her own measure. "Senators, this is not a debate of free speech, it is a debate of whether or not a man has the right to try and plant seditious and treasonous lies against the sovereign government and his Majesty. It has long been established that not all speech is considered protected by such a statement. For instance, I could not shout fire in a crowded theater because of the danger it would pose to everyone in there. The same is true of the Representatives remarks. They present a clear and present danger to the security to this body and this government. His words ring most afoul of some of the greatest treachery that has ever been uttered in these hallowed halls. It is because he is a true traitor to the empire that he must be removed from office." she paused for a moment. "I would even go as far as to say the man was not out of his mind, and clearly spoke what he truly believed to be the truth. To have someone who has such traitorous leanings in the Imperial Senate can not, will not, and must not be tolerated to ANY degree and that is the reason for this measure to outright remove the traitor from our midst before he has a chance to further implicate himself, sway others into actions against the government, or to spread his message of lies and half truths any further."
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 5:33 PM | Message # 15 |
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Lieutenant general
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| I have never before seen the Senate exhibit such a poor understanding of proper, parliamentary conduct. Senators, I feel there is something that must be emphasized: whether or not you agree with Representative Crion, he was out of line. Free speech is not without limits. It does not entitle you to stand in this chamber and make wild allegations against the government without basis in fact. On a street corner, yes. In the Senate, no. It is called unparliamentary language, Senators. Representative Crion should have been familiar with the rules of this body, and so should you. There is no government anywhere in this galaxy, nor has there ever been one, that would allow Representative Crion to say such frenzied, paranoid, and vulgar things in its legislature. It is, frankly, shocking that anyone would vote against his censure. This is not a question of free speech. This is not a question of partisanship. It is a question of the integrity of this body—if you vote against this censure, you are weakening the legitimacy of the Imperial Senate. I cannot imagine anything more irresponsible than this. Senator Ryuun's frustration, though perhaps indelicately expressed by the Senator, is still quite understandable to me. This is not some grimy street corner where vagrants can wave their arms and shout and spew spittle at one another. This is the Imperial Senate. There are rules, and Representative Crion was expected to behave in a manner worthy of the people who elected him to represent them here. Instead, he pouted like a child and told wild and provocative lies about the government he is elected to participate in. This is not acceptable behavior, Senators. It is not acceptable in the Senate that my family has proudly served for generations. And Senator Ray, I beg you, please clarify your position for me. I fear that I have pushed myself near to madness trying to understand it. You say that if Representative Crion does not apologize in a week, then you will support removing him from this chamber. But you will not vote in favor of a measure that will remove him from this chamber if he does not apologize in a week?
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Monday, 25 Oct 2010, 5:33 PM |
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