MainMy profileRegistrationLog outLogin
Friday
20.6.2025
7:38 AM
| RSS Main
[New messages · Members · Forum rules · Search · RSS ]
Archive - read only
Forum moderator: Sate_Pestage  
Repeal of turbolasers provision
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 9:18 AM | Message # 16
Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Awards: 2
Reputation: -3
Status: Offline
Senator Thanatos, I apologize if that is the way this measure comes across however I do not apologize for trying to protect the best interests of all planets within the empire. As to Senator Oriel, perhaps a few compromises can be reached on the measure in question such as the one I proposed earlier limiting it to ships without hyperdrives or with class 17 and above."
 
Bernard_OrielDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 9:33 AM | Message # 17
Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2
Status: Offline
This isn't a matter for compromise, I will not gamble with the lives of Imperial Citizens.
Upon that rock I stand.

Worlds should not be allowed to threaten, intimidate, bully or attack eachother.
Upon that rock I stand.

Worlds should not be able to possess these weapons of genocide.
Upon that rock I stand.

Defence for all, the power of aggression for none.
Upon that rock I stand.


Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
 
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 9:50 AM | Message # 18
Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Awards: 2
Reputation: -3
Status: Offline
You are gambling with the lives of Imperial citizens by NOT compromising Senator Oriel.
 
Senator_OrdanDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 9:54 AM | Message # 19
Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Awards: 0
Reputation: 1
Status: Offline
I too agree with Senator Oriel. It is your motion which threatens lives Senator Star. You seek only protection for your own aggressive vessel(s). And I wont stand for that.

Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________

Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
 
Toben-DomonDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 12:00 PM | Message # 20
Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 347
Awards: 0
Reputation: -5
Status: Offline
Senator Star, Sluis Van votes heavily against this measure. Senator Oriel's bill is quite reasonable.

Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
 
LomenRyuunDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 12:03 PM | Message # 21
Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Awards: 1
Reputation: 1
Status: Offline
No, Senator Star. Simply no. Against. BE like Druckenwell, Senator. Make a change for the better. We have already sold back our overpowered vessels of destruction to the Empire. Join hands with myself and Senator Oriel and usher in a new era of peace.

Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
 
Taja_LohdenDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 12:12 PM | Message # 22
Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 79
Awards: 0
Reputation: 0
Status: Offline
I have to admit, following the tumult of amendments and counter-arguments made on this matter, I seem to have lost all track of where we now stand. However... and while this may come as a shock... I do not believe that a ship without turbolaser emplacements is sufficiently capable of defending against potential threats, especially from outside forces that don't conform to Imperial ruling.

I speak, of course, of the remaining and unaccounted-for Separatist vessels that have by now probably fallen into the wrong hands, the sheer ease of acquiring such heavy weapons batteries for most ships, and the lack of investigation into tracking and procuring threatening ships from said wrong hands.
As much as I'd like to propogate such a notion, the entire galaxy is not yet united under the Imperial banner, and as such, not all people will heed the new ruling as put forth in Senator Oriel's original bill (the one which I voted in favour of).

Therefore, while I am still very much in support of converting homeworld fleets into defensive ones, under revision of the bill I am presenting my decision to vote in favour of Senator Star's repeal. I simply do not think, at this time, that we can count on the honour of potential pirates and Separatist remnants to not bring heavier weapons to the table than those being sported by their victims.

 
Bernard_OrielDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 12:41 PM | Message # 23
Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2
Status: Offline
Psh. The Separatists? Do not be ridiculous Senator Lohden. The Separatists were beaten a decade ago, any who remain are skulking in hulks which haven't rearmed, refuelled or entered dock for a decade. Do you really think any such vessel is a threat? Indeed theyre more of a threat to themselves. Any such massive weapons require constant repairs, spare parts and other care. I hardly think a beaten band of vagabonds in ancient and poorly maintained vessels threaten anyone. I am confident even a world with a small military could hold them off for long enough for the Imperial Starfleet to arrive.

Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
 
Taja_LohdenDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 12:56 PM | Message # 24
Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 79
Awards: 0
Reputation: 0
Status: Offline
I assure you, Senator Oriel, that if you call me ridiculous again in these halls, it will be the last time. I'd recommend a civil tongue, even if the message beneath whatever veiled words you choose remains the same.
I know we defeated the Separatists, and I know it goes against Imperial sentiment to even entertain the notion that there may still be some threatening force out there. I'm not declaring we should enter a state of emergency on the off-chance that a Separatist war fleet still exists, but neither you nor I can account for the ships that remain, unless you've personally traversed the stars and logged every single one of them.

And my concerns aren't exclusively for Separatist remnants. As I've pointed out on more than one occasion since joining the Senate to represent Kaal, not every world is under Imperial jurisdiction.
If the Hutts decide they want oh, say... Druckenwell, to add to their cartel... do you seriously think they'll adhere to the laws we've put forth, and disarm their capital ships and play fairly with our rules? Because I don't think they will, Senator.
If Black Sun wish to orchestrate a bombing run on Garos IV, do you think they'll withold their offensive rather than simply plough through ships armed with little more than stationary turrets and point-defense lasers?

No... for the most part, I think the new legislation regarding capital ships is sound. As I previously mentioned, I even voted in favour of it. But in hindsight, I think the removal of these turbolaser batteries is an obscene invitation to all non-Imperial divisions to take advantage of us, and when the Navy is able to respond, I fear it may already be too late.
My vote stands, unless compelling evidence can be brought forth to suggest that these non-Imperial factions will pose no threat even with the removal of the turbolaser batteries.

 
Bernard_OrielDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 1:24 PM | Message # 25
Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2
Status: Offline
To answer your points Senator Lohden.

Firstly, the act does not forbid turbolasers. The act simply forbids overpowered multiple mounted turbolasers which are built for the purpose of widespread destruction against worlds. There is nothing stopping you owning the immense firepower of a Golan Station (able to turn back whole fleets alone) or minefields and fighter squadrons, even a hundred defense monitor ships, armed with scores of turbolasers each. As stated in the original act, the original act prevents aggressive vessels, while permitting those intended for defence.

If the Hutt Cartel thought of invading Druckenwell, I have the firmest confidence an Imperial Fleet would prevent their actions. It is laughable to entertain the notion that such an invasion could ever escape the notice of Imperial Intelligence and so the Imperial Navy. Even, if the unlikely circumstance arose when the Imperial Navy was not there before any attackers, the Druckenwell Defensive Fleet would be more than adequate to deal with such disorganised rabble. The same applies for the Black Sun, and frankly, if either was to attack a world, it seems more likely they would use unconventional means which would render such massive turbolasers impotent; such as acts of terrorism.

Also, stationary defences and point defence lasers ought not to be criticised. As stated before, a Golan Station, one of the most powerful weapons available, is a static defence, as are XQ platforms and a hundred other such military installations.


Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
 
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 1:39 PM | Message # 26
Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Awards: 2
Reputation: -3
Status: Offline
And how does this measure do that Senator Oriel since these vessels by the compromise will have a hard time leaving a system? Slow hyperdrives or having them removed altogether pretty much restricts any ship from leaving a system with the intent of attack

Added (13 Nov 2010, 2:39 PM)
---------------------------------------------
Instead you seem to think your planet as the only correct answer to this problem and seeks to forbid anyone from trying a different method on their own planets. While we have agreed that these ships don't need to leave the system you need to understand that your solution isn't right for all systems or all planets.

 
Bernard_OrielDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 1:43 PM | Message # 27
Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2
Status: Offline
"Slow hyperdrives or having them removed altogether pretty much restricts any ship from leaving a system with the intent of attack"

Exactly. A ship should not be able to leave a system with intent to attack, but a low powered hyperdrive is a hyperdrive still. And it still allows vessels to threaten other systems. It could also threaten worlds within its own system with these weapons.


Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate


Message edited by Bernard_Oriel - Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 1:44 PM
 
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 2:01 PM | Message # 28
Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Awards: 2
Reputation: -3
Status: Offline
"And as you have pointed out senator these ships are still powerful and if they wanted to attack a planet in its own system no amount of legislation would stop that. However since most those represented here are systems these ships are used for the defense of these systems. Yes but with that slow of hyperdrives they can not truly be used as an offensive vessels as it would give systems a very long time to prepare defenses and alert imperial forces to come to their aide. This measure only ensures that system defenders have the best equipment available to defend their systems as THEY choose not YOU senator. Mind to Vjun and not other systems."

Added (13 Nov 2010, 3:01 PM)
---------------------------------------------
"I would also like to add that this amendment covers ships that your bill doesn't senator oriel. In order to have these types of weapons the ships MUST be defensive by either removing or severely downgrading their hyperdrives.

 
Bernard_OrielDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 2:04 PM | Message # 29
Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Awards: 1
Reputation: 2
Status: Offline
*Oriel simply laughed, a long, sardonic laugh. The Senator from Volus was making a ridiculously circuitous argument, by his logic every world should be able to possess a superweapon to "defend their systems as they choose". He then spoke, stifling the laugh. He simply didnt understand the capital ships bill couldnt completely prevent an assault by one world by another, it was simply damage control designed to minimise damage.*

"So should a world be allowed to own Baradium fission device to "defend its system as it chooses"? Should it be allowed to possess Ion Pulse Cannons? Electromagnetic torpedoes? You would have an unrestricted field of weapons, would encourage arms races and cause countless worlds to waste money buying bigger and bigger weapons to counter eachothers weapons. The Capital Ships Act introduces standard regulations which prevent this. To weaken these creates a slippery slope towards super weapons. We have to draw a line somewhere, and I for one draw it at these massively destructive multiple mounted super heavy turbolasers. Where would you draw it?

The answer is, "anywhere it does not effect my world's big, waste of money which is called by some a battleship" the massive phallic symbol which you appear to be clutching to in such an insecure manner. You give prodigious descriptions of standing up for planetary rights. You do not stand for planetary rights, you just want to ringfence your own vessel from the rules by changing the law for you own gain."


Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate


Message edited by Bernard_Oriel - Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 2:06 PM
 
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 2:12 PM | Message # 30
Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 313
Awards: 2
Reputation: -3
Status: Offline
"I choose to let the planets decide within reason. Turbolasers are not superweapons which are almost pointless as it is as just about any ship or groups of ships can conduct the same thing. If you want to admit it or not Senator Oriel, going to more ships will not make cities and planets more safe. Those ships can STILL pose a threat to other systems and since I am willing to negotiate I will make one more offer.

Any ship possessing such a turbolaser battery must have removed the entire hyperdrive rendering it a defensive vessel. That way it can NOT leave the system that it is set to defend and therefore poses no danger to its neighbors as you seem to think every ship is.

 
Search:


Copyright MyCorp © 2025
Create a free website with uCoz