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Repeal of turbolasers provision
LomenRyuunDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 2:14 PM | Message # 31
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As Senator Oriel points out, Druckenwell's defensive forces are more than capable of repulsing an assault of even moderate magnitude. However, if, by some chance, say, Vjun came under attack and was unable to repulse the attackers and, Force forbid, the Imperial fleet could not arrive quickly enough, Druckenwell would send ships to aid, either a squadron or so of snubfighters or a larger vessel. We are all here to help each other as well as have the Imperial fleets to depend on.

Senator Star, Senator Oriel's legislation only prevents multiple banks of turbolasers. My Carrack cruisers are armed with turbolasers, twenty each to be precise, and they fall within the bill's limit. Their hyperdrives do not require limiting either. Defensive forces do not need to employ such massive vessels.


Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
 
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 2:16 PM | Message # 32
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You are wrong senator Ryuun. Senator Oriel's bill forbids heavy turbo laser batteries. Forbidding planets from carrying the heavier firepower needed to deal with many threats that could potentially arise.
 
LomenRyuunDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 2:27 PM | Message # 33
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As you said, batteries. Perhaps I am wrong, but single turbolaser cannon emplacements are still allowed, heavy or otherwise. This is all also a moot point, as you can easily place a Golan platform for a defense. Druckenwell is considering such an option at this time to assist with customs and defense alike, as well as creating more jobs to boost the economy.

Surely, Senator Star, your world could benefit from such?


Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
 
Taja_LohdenDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 3:41 PM | Message # 34
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I see I have had my word taken quite literally; I meant Druckenwell as an example, and it would seem I chose a bad one. My point is, not every world will be sufficiently defended from potential attackers, and not every potential attacker is going to be considerate of meagre home-fleet defences.

And pardon me if I'm being a tad underwhelming in my knowledge of defense stations and the such - I am a Senator, afterall, not a naval tactician - but the flaw in space stations is in the lack of mobility that you yourself mentioned, Senator Oriel. How can a space station, or twenty space stations, or even a hundred be expected to repel an attacking force of any size, if said force enters the system out of the station's weapons range? Unless you plan on ringing every planet in these structures, I cannot see how any station can compare to a mobile, versatile capital ship with the means to defend itself.

Do as Senator Star says, gut the fully-armed ships of their hyperdrives, or whatever else will help you feel safe while you sleep at night. It is the opinion of my people that this debacle has gone on long enough without compromise, and at this point I would politely ask the chair to intervene and provide an ultimatum, if so willing.

 
LomenRyuunDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 3:49 PM | Message # 35
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That is a bad point, Senator Lohden. Any space station can be repositioned by a score or more of tugs, such as the CT-11 space tug. Even so, placing a defensive station along a hyperspace route to the planet should well enough deter any attackers. If, say, they should remain outside the station's range and it cannot be moved, there are still defensive fighters and ships to be dealt with. It is a simple matter of each planet purchasing a good number of smaller ships that can be used to tie up attackers until the Imperial fleet arrives. It isn't as if any attackers can occupy any planet of ours or successfully gain a foothold with ground troops.

Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
 
Taja_LohdenDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 4:01 PM | Message # 36
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As I said, Senator Ryuun, I do not profess to be an expert on such matters, I find that kind of thing best left to military and naval minds, proven to have an aptitude for it.

But my knowledge of spacial defensive emplacements notwithstanding, my vote remains the same until I and my people can be convinced that the removal of a defensive ships heaviest weapons is, infact, a benefit and not a complete detriment and invitation for anarchy.

 
Bernard_OrielDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 5:11 PM | Message # 37
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You're missing the point Senator Lohden, vessels with these armourments are not defensive ships. Only aggressive ships designed for waging aggressive war are so equipped.

There's nothing stopping worlds having planetary turbo lasers though... So one could hardly think them under defended when they are able to mount weapons which have the firepower of whole ships.. But this is no problem, as they have no application but defence.


Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
 
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 5:15 PM | Message # 38
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"Senator Oriel once again you miss the point. How can these ships be aggressive IF they have no hyperdrives? They are still superior to stations and those smaller ships without them, but they can't leave the system without a hyperdrive. So your point about these ships being aggressive is now null and void."
 
LomenRyuunDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 5:34 PM | Message # 39
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Senator, does New Volus have an ulterior motive? Is there perhaps something you are not sharing with us? You are the most vehement about repealing this law, almost as if you have something to hide.

It is quite reasonable to place defensive stations, even more than one if you wish, around a planet.

It is quite reasonable to buy several smaller, more defensive minded vessels.

It is quite reasonable to commission several squadrons of fighters for defense.

It is even reasonable not to like Senator Oriel's bill, even vote against it. I did at first, if you recall.

It is not reasonable, however, to pursue legislation against his bill as if you have a vendetta, or as if you are a spoiled child. As Senator Lohden said, it is taking up extra time and wasting that which the Senate could be using to address other matters.

The manner in which you fight against this and the amount of time you are putting in attempting to change it makes me wonder if perhaps the stress of the Senate is hitting you too harshly, Senator. Perhaps a break is in order for you to recover yourself?


Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
 
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 5:46 PM | Message # 40
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"My physical health is of no concern here Senator, and while you may wish to close your eyes and wish the galaxy a better place there are those of us who know the truth. Who know the screams of civilians as all they have known is taken from them. Who know what it is like to stare down death and to never be able to forget the sound of destroyer droids rolling on permacrete. Who know that this galaxy is a dangerous place, and who are determined to stand up and try to fight for a better tomorrow for children of this galaxy and this Empire. There are those of us who know what it cost to get us to this era of peace first hand and will not see the same cost rise its head again.

That is the reason for my steadfast opposition to this piece of legislation. It threatens to harm the glorious progress we have made here by weakening planets and forcing the Imperial fleet, as mighty as it may be to guard every planet which is not logistically possible. This is a dangerous galaxy senators, made no less so by the remnants of the separatist fleets, by the insurgents which use cowardly acts of terror against this government, and by the host of pirate and gang fleets which plague planets and trade. This is a dangerous galaxy and we must be prepared by allowing systems and planets to look after themselves as much as possible so that the Imperial Fleet can deal with the threats that arise without having to worry about protecting planets.

In these hypothetical situations that have been tossed around you have often mentioned until the imperial fleet arrives. Why make it even necessary for an Imperial Fleet to respond when you can defend yourself? That is the reason for my measure to protect the right of ALL worlds to defend themselves.

 
LomenRyuunDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 6:00 PM | Message # 41
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Ah, yes, I forget, Senator Star, that a massive warship is a deterrent against a madman with a proton bomb in a carrying sack. Of course. For those of us who live in the now though, with the lessons from the Clone Wars learned well, the galaxy needs to do away with such weapons of mass destruction. We can look after ourselves even with smaller ships and defensive stations, is my point. One does not need a massive ship of war to defend themselves.

As you mention, I bring up the Imperial fleet arriving in these cases because, even with your single, solitary massive warship, you cannot hold off a fleet of ships. You cannot hope to stop even a ragtag pirate fleet that can simply remain out of a Venator's weapon range and send its smaller ships to assault your holdings. Invest in smaller vessels that you can afford; multiple vessels, that can better defend.


Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
 
Senator_OrdanDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 6:02 PM | Message # 42
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What utter nonsense Senator Star. What is the role of the Imperial Fleet if not to defend its members. You're making silly arguments as usual! As stated by Senators Oriel and Ryuun, fleets are in no way weakened by this act.

I repeat the question of Senator Ryuun, and I too feel that perhaps the strain of office is a little too much for you Senator Star. To effectively demean the Imperial Fleet and call the Empire's territory "unsafe" is nonsense. It is scaremongering nonsense that is meant to threaten the cohesion of the Empire and everything we stand for. There are no pirate fleets or gang fleets with anything more than minor vessels, and certainly none could threaten a member world, thanks to the Imperial Starfleet.

Senator Star's seditious speech certainly seems short sighted, scandalous and silly, as well as a matter for concern on a psychiatric level. Perhaps it would be just as well if the Chair ordered a psychiatric investigation into Mr Star, for his own health?


Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________

Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
 
Sate_PestageDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 6:26 PM | Message # 43
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As far as the chair can discern, this is a difference of opinion—strongly held, I will grant you—and not, at this time, a psychiatric matter. I would caution both sides of this debate to remain courteous to one another, please. Or, if not courteous, to refrain from insinuations about ulterior motives and vested interests. Whether the Senator from Volus does have a vested interest in this measure, I do not speculate. Although, to be fair, I'm sure the Senator would admit that there is an appearance of this. At any rate, the chair doesn't have an official position on this measure at this time. Personally, however, I would not be so fast to dismiss the might of the Imperial fleet. Its purpose is to defend Imperial worlds, and it is my belief that it is quite capable of doing so.

Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
 
Crin_StarDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 6:35 PM | Message # 44
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"Grand Vizier, that is certainly not my intentions or my words. I was simply stating that logistically speaking the imperial fleet can not be everywhere at once.Now if the other senators will so oblige perhaps we should remain on the matter of the proposal and not cast false and highly irresponsible aspirations on my physical or mental health which I assure them are at peak to what I am sure will be their great relief." ending the last bit with a hint of sarcasm.
 
Toben-DomonDate: Saturday, 13 Nov 2010, 6:45 PM | Message # 45
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Senator Star... after careful consideration of the arguments shown here, Sluis Van votes against this change. If you feel the need for your world's ships to have heavy turbolasers or multiple batteries of turbolasers, you are perhaps warmongering or delusional. I cannot say as I am not a human. For Sluis Van, standard turbolasers are more than capable of dealing with any threats.

It is a true shame, Senator Star, that you cannot be an example to the people of the Senate and go with Senator Oriel's bill. Is a heavy blaster better than a blaster? Possibly, but two blasters are likely better than one heavy blaster. It is not such an onerous thing that has been proposed here. Sluis Van was opposed to the measure for different reasons than yourself, Senator Star, but this bickering must come to an end.


Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
 
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