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Censure of Senator Zarcaine
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Sunday, 22 May 2011, 8:48 PM | Message # 1 |
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| I propose this chamber votes to censure Senator Zarcaine and require an apology for his implication that there might be widespread misconduct in the Imperial Military. The Imperial Military is a providential institution, formed by our Mighty Emperor for the protection of his loyal and human subjects from the galactic mob, Separatists, Aliens, Rebels etc. While it might be appropriate that the Senate politely questions the conduct of specific officers or queries if an operation was carried out in a way which is consistent with Imperial will, it is not appropriate to attempt to subvert the institution of the Imperial Military with innuendos of widespread use of force. "Was the destruction of Alurion truly necessary." - Senator Zarcaine The answer Senator is "If the Emperor wills it done". "Too often it is the civilian that comes out injured, and nothing is done to give them answers as to why their home is now in shambles." - Senator Zarcaine This is an outright allegation that the Imperial Military regularly disregards the rights of Imperial subjects, which I do not believe to be true. Furthermore he implies "actions... (of Imperial Officers) often lead to destruction on a wide scale" and also implies that the "most horrendous actions and atrocities... befall... the people of the Galactic Empire." showing a complete lack of faith in the present institutions of the Empire to prevent atrocities and horrendous actions. Thus with this questioning of duly constituted authority I hope you cannot but come to the same conclusion of me, that the language of the motion was most terribly unsuitable and likely to lead Imperial Citizens to the (entirely wrong conclusion) that there are not failsafes to discipline officers who act poorly and that the most Benevolent Empire and his duly appointed representatives in the Military do not have a fraternal regard and love for every citizen.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Monday, 23 May 2011, 2:43 AM | Message # 2 |
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| I do not believe we should move to censure a man who is brave enough to speak out. I believe he was using his voice not to criticize how the military structure is being run, but rather is very concerned on how the behaviors of an Imperial soldier should act toward civilians. The civilians should feel safe around the stormtroopers, do they not? They should feel safe whether a star destroyer is in orbit, do they not? I am not questioning His Majesty's rule. I am questioning the conduct of the military toward civilians, and I believe there is a link between that and the establishment of rebel factions throughout the galaxy. I truly do believe that if we start showing that we can be trusted again, there won't be any more seeds of rebellion. I vote against the censure of Senator Zarcaine. However, he may apologize if he choose to.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 23 May 2011, 3:21 AM | Message # 3 |
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| By your words "I am questioning the conduct of the military toward civilians", Senator Fowlkes, you are accepting the assertion of Senator Zarcaine that there is in some respect widespread poor treatment of citizens by the Imperial Military, this is disgustingly unpatriotic. If I see a Star Destroyer above I feel safe, in the knowledge loyal men of the Empire are above me, if I see a Stormtrooper off duty I would shake his hand and them him for his service to me and the Empire. The Empire can be trusted. It does not need to "regain" trust. The unpatriotic attempts by you and Senator Zarcaine to undermine the security and stability of the Empire by criticising the Imperial Military will be noted. The lack of faith Senators Zarcaine and Fowlkes are expressing in the institutions of the Empire is disturbing indeed, and flirts with open rebellious talk. It would perhaps be prudent for Senator Fowlkes and Senator Zarcaine to consdier their positions in this chamber in light of their worlds, unless they wish to risk expulsion as befell Mical De Crion for his wrongful accusations and ranting talk which seems to be the ideological father seen in these new "firebrand" anti-Imperial anti-Military Senatorial alignment.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Robert_North | Date: Monday, 23 May 2011, 4:06 PM | Message # 4 |
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| Senator Fowlkes, you are walking a fine line. Senator Kuriyoshi is now under investigation, and should you continue to move towards committing sedition, you too will be under very intense investigation. I am tired of this Crionism and Starism perverting the Senate Hall, I am tired of this constant questioning of the actions of the Emperor and the Chair. You are correct, Senator Oriel, Senators Kuriyoshi and Fowlkes are flirting with rebellion.
I vote In Favor of the censure of Senator Zarcaine Kuriyoshi.
The Honorable R.C.W. North
Senator of Imperial Center
Chairman of the Internal Activities Committee Mayor of the Galactic/Imperial City (22 BBY-18 BBY)
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Monday, 23 May 2011, 4:28 PM | Message # 5 |
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| I am also voting against this measure. The purpose of this chamber is for every senator representing their people to have a voice, is it not? Or are certain voices the only ones that are allowed to be heard. It is not flirting with rebellion to have an opinion that differs from yours, Senator North, or yours Senator Oriel...it is just that....an OPINION. Should I look up a definition for you?
Perhaps the Senator of the Cronese Mandate has spoken too harshly about the Imperial Military's tactics in regards to certain situations, but I have absolutely no doubt that he would only do as such if there was a true concern for sentient life and welfare. He is a caring individual, and as such, speaks what he believes to be true. There is nothing wrong with that gentlemen, and it saddens me to see that you both think that. I had higher regards for the both of you than that.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Titus_Veritas | Date: Monday, 23 May 2011, 4:51 PM | Message # 6 |
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| Was he misguided? Yes. Was he offensive? Yes. Has he spoken of false information as fact? Yes. Did he break any law? No. Does he deserve expulsion? No. Does he deserve censure? Yes.
Senator Thanatos, I agree with you, mostly, on the issue of Senator Kuriyoshi's speech lately, however when he begins accusing His Majesty's Imperial Military Forces of committing atrocities and inflicting horrors upon Imperial citizens, he has gone too far. This is not acceptable behavior for any Senator. He can have an opinion, but this is outright baseless accusation, which can not stand. I served in the Clone Wars, and helped give birth to the Empire... and it was not to be called a war criminal in these chambers...
I vote In Favor.
Viceroy Titus Veritas, House Veritas
Consul of the House of Lords
Former Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (50 BBY - 30 BBY, 18 BBY - 10 BBY)
Former Chairman of the Imperial Senate Defense Committee (18 BBY - 10 BBY)
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Monday, 23 May 2011, 8:06 PM | Message # 7 |
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| Naturally I vote in favour of this censure. Senator Zarcaine has impugned the honour of our beloved Navy and ought to be suitably chastised for his actions. Freedom of speech has limits.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Wednesday, 25 May 2011, 3:33 PM | Message # 8 |
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| I don't find the Senator's words as offensive as the implication of them, which is precisely as you've said, gentlemen—that "the Empire" (as a monolithic concept) has some imagined tendency to abuse the public trust and, thus, "the people" (again, a monolithic concept) cannot depend on it to investigate these abuses in an impartial fashion when they do, in fact, occur. It is an extraordinary thing to say or to imply, and as far as I'm concerned it is all the more damning that Senator Zarcaine has not bothered to defend himself from this charge at all, or to deny it, or to apologize for it as even the Senator from Telos (with his own indiscretions on this subject) has called on him to do. This suggests to me that Senator Zarcaine is a man of intransigent character and, potentially, of seditious intent. Whether this sort of man is fit to be a Senator, the people of the Cronese Mandate will decide. Let us hope this censure proves informative for them. I vote in favor.
Added (25 May 2011, 4:33 PM)
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And opinions matter, Senator Thanatos. It's frenzied opinions like those Senator Zarcaine has expressed that do more to damage the public's trust in the Empire than anything the men and women of the Imperial armed forces could do even in the Senator's wildest dreams ("wild dreams" is charitable. More like "paranoid delusions").
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| Artemis_Vanden | Date: Friday, 27 May 2011, 6:41 PM | Message # 9 |
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| The hyperbole from those who support this measure far exceeds anything that Senator Kuriyoshi supposedly or actually said. Yes, his assumptions weren't charitable to the Empire. Yes, his words contain criticisms of Imperial policy. But is the Empire so afraid of criticism that it can stand none of it, and demands the charity of our assumptions? I think those in this discussion who see the Imperial armed forces as some delicate flower in need of our chivalry are being far more uncharitable to them than Senator Kuriyoshi was. I have a difference of opinion with Senator Kuriyoshi, which I have expressed elsewhere. Do I think he should be punished because of this difference of opinion? No, of course not. Senator Thanatos is right—opinions should be encouraged in this chamber, not discouraged. I vote against this censure, though I agree with the Senator from Telos IV that some sort of statement of regret from Senator Kuriyoshi is in order.
Artemis Vanden
Representative of the Naboo
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| LordZarcaine | Date: Saturday, 28 May 2011, 12:37 PM | Message # 10 |
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| Recently I was called back to the Cronese Mandate due to this censure being brought forth, those who sent me here had questions, and yet, as answers where given, more questions where brought up. More to the point that the People of the Cronese Mandate began to look for the reasons of this censure being brought up. They looked and found a disturbing fact that seems to have come up before many times. That single fact being that each time a Senator speaks out against a policy or bill that is deemed as Pro-Imperial, that Senator is attacked and chastised as being a Separatist, or a Rebel. One that is trying to sow the seeds of destruction of the Empire, and in that fact alone it disturbed the People of the Cronese Mandate. It disturbed them to learn that speaking ones opinion that is also the opinion of the worried people would be enough cause to single out and call forth the quieting of a voice of the people. It disturbed them to know that just because you criticize the actions of a single Imperial Officer, based on the facts of previous events that resulted in the same action, that you are called a rebel and are demanded by others to be censored and quieted, to prevent your criticism and opinions from reaching others.
This disturbed the People of the Cronese Mandate, that their freedoms could so easily be taken from them at the hands of those that would call themselves loyal. Then the question came up as to how those who call themselves loyal, really are loyal. Is it loyal to put down the people, to cut their freedoms from them just because you believe that you should be a mindless drone and do nothing but blindly support a government. One that was formed from the ashes of a previous one torn apart by war. Should you support the actions of people who would soon keep you quiet, than let you express your concern over the actions of those that you are to trust and ensure your safety to. Is it right to be loyal if it means that you will not be able to speak your mind with out fear of retribution for a simple comment, or concern that you put forth to the one that you send to represent you.
The People of the Cronese Mandate took their time with these questions, asking them to each other before they came to a right conclusion. They have decide to trust in my judgment and my words. To keep me as their representative and have, and I quote "Brought themselves to resolve to support their Senator no matter what happens, no matter the cost, and will stand in the face of any hostile actions that would be taken to prevent them from their voice being heard." I do not speak for just myself, I speak for the People of the Cronese Mandate, the people who have decided with out a doubt, to support the one that they sent to the Imperial Senate to be their voice. I do not cast this vote on this censure, it is the People of the Cronese Mandate who have decided in their own right to Vote Against this Censure and to stand next to their Senator no matter how dark the night is.
- Signed Lord Kuriyoshi, Representative of the Cronese Mandate
Lord Zarcaine Kuriyoshi
Lord of Chandaar
Message edited by LordZarcaine - Saturday, 28 May 2011, 12:38 PM |
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Saturday, 28 May 2011, 9:43 PM | Message # 11 |
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| Quote (Lucius Sterne, in a letter to me) And I want you to know, Jo, we're sorry about Zarcaine. He's been a cause of some embarrassment for us here and I assure you he doesn't speak for all of us, or even most of us.
Words from my old friend, Lucius Sterne, who lives on Derellium in the Cronese Mandate. Something to consider before Senator Zarcaine talks about the people of the Cronese Mandate like they're one person.. named Senator Zarcaine. But supposing his people did elect him to spew filth in the Senate,its still wrong to spew filth in the Senate and no, we dont have to put up with it. Spare us your tale of woe, Zarcaine.. no ones freedom is being taken away, because theres no freedom to stand here and accuse the governnent of atrocities. The old republic you love so much wouldnt have put up with it either.. No government would or should. You want to go outside on the street and shout your conspiracy theories like a homeless lunatic, go on ahead. But do it in here and your going to be censured. you're poorly informing your people if you're telling them this is anyones fault but yours.
By the way.. the definition of censure- "a procedure for publicly reprimanding a public official for inappropriate behavior." Obviously this has nothing to do with taking freedom away.. its about Senator Zarcaine's ego.
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
Message edited by Johannes_Oswaldt - Saturday, 28 May 2011, 9:49 PM |
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| LordZarcaine | Date: Saturday, 28 May 2011, 10:37 PM | Message # 12 |
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| Senator Oswaldt,
What would you do in the same position, are you to say that your ego is not at all large. The very proof is right there in the quote of a letter that you have received from a citizen of the Mandate, and yet, such letters are nothing new. I would like to introduce the following letter, such as Senator Oswaldt has done himself. This letter though was sent by a person who felt it best for their own and their families safety to remain anonymous.
Quote "Dear Seantor, it is with out own heavy hearts that we should find that a strong voice against the views that harm people is in our understanding being attacked, non the less by our own Senator Oswaldt. We feel it is important to let you know that my family and I do not support our Senator, nor the bills he has put before the Senate. Many of his views and his actions are harsh and cause problems for our family. My own child is sick from the pollution on Eriadu and we fear for our lives if we are found out to be speaking out against the Senator who is also the Governor of the planet. Signed - Anonymous"
A letter such as this, as well as the quote from your own letter just shows that no matter where one looks, one can find support for anything. From Censuring and disagreeing with a Senator, to a local planetary sports team.
Lord Zarcaine Kuriyoshi
Lord of Chandaar
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Saturday, 28 May 2011, 11:18 PM | Message # 13 |
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| I visited Eriadu. Charming place, honestly I have not visited a world with higher standards of care and a more beautiful vista. The construction of all buildings is of a fine quality and I was honoured to be carried in a sedan chair by a group of four strong young locals who I can assure you showed no sign of any "sickeness" from any "pollution".
This accusation is nothing more than a slander. I would remand the Senate that Eriadu's atmosphere is listed as breathable by all monitoring authorities, and so allegations that any traces of chemicals in the air (what little there may be) could be toxic or cause illness are nothing but slander. If such lies were told on Eriadu the scum in question would be flogged, especially if (as I suspect) these groans of discontent were expressed by the filthy alien scum who were so responsible for the atrocities of the Clone Wars.
However, I digress. I am quite sure the chemical contents of the air are necessary and healthy for the lives of all the humans present and are desirable for their health (Just as we fluoridate water, when fluorine is traditionally a toxin, in small amounts in water it promotes health). If alien respiratory systems are not as hardy and hale as good human respiratory systems, perhaps they should reevaluate their choice of world and relocate to whatever filthy hive they dragged themselves from.
No good citizen would write to a Rebel Senator who questioned the Imperial Authorities and Military, who accused them of being war criminals and murderers. I restate my support for the censure of this clearly deluded individual who is clearly suffering from Crionist and Starist delusions, possibly as a result of the notorious Cratwright's Disease.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Sunday, 29 May 2011, 2:58 AM | Message # 14 |
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| Here we have reduced to trading barbs toward each other, and even toward each another world. That is just exactly it, Senator Oswaldt...and Senator North. Oswaldt, you have admitted that we have no freedom to stand here and feel the need to express opinions on how the armed forces should be acting in manners toward our citizens. We should be able to express our own opinions, to a point, without being accused of flirting with rebellion...Senator North. You say you are sick of Starism and Crionism perverting the Senate Chambers. I do believe that they had stepped out of line in this very same chambers, but they at least had their opinions voiced out. They just took it too far, and Grand Vizier Pestage were right to remove them from this chambers.
However, what about Senators Oswaldt and North? Oswaldt's belittling everyone else and North's infamous accusations of Senators being anti-imperials does not serve the Senate well neither. If that action continues, both of you are just going to antagonize people you hold dear within the Empire. Especially toward Senators Oswaldt and North, we are not here to trade barbs. We are here to serve the best interests of our citizens. We are here to serve the best interests of the Empire.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Sunday, 29 May 2011, 4:38 AM | Message # 15 |
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| This is really getting out of hand, don't you think, Gentlemen? This seems like it is turning into more of a personal attack against a man that none of you know personally, instead of a civilised discussion in regards to what is best for our great Empire. Senator Fowlkes is absolutely and undeniably correct in his statements.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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