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The Peace and Parity Act
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| LordZarcaine | Date: Wednesday, 05 Oct 2011, 10:35 PM | Message # 16 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 192
Status: Offline
| Senator Cambrist, anyone one of us in this Senate hall could also motion for the same of you. As for the claims of plagiarism against you, anyone who reads both Bills side by side can see a striking resemblance in many of the sections. It was not your proposal that incensed me, as much as your constantly grabbing for glory. There are points in this Bill that could have easily been suggested as additions to my own, rather than you deciding to form your own for your own personal agenda for glory. As it stands now, the Cronese Mandate also must vote against this Bill.
Lord Zarcaine Kuriyoshi
Lord of Chandaar
Message edited by LordZarcaine - Wednesday, 05 Oct 2011, 10:36 PM |
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Wednesday, 05 Oct 2011, 11:23 PM | Message # 17 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Senator, I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it tiresome how you see every dispute as a clash of egos, in which all criticism of you is intensely personal. But please try to understand, for once, this bill is not about you. And not all bills are proposed for the phallic concept of "glory," which is something I'm quite uninterested in. Senator, this bill addresses a real issue with an approach that's drastically different from yours—I don't see how I can be accused of stealing ideas from your bill, which I don't agree with, and which was proposed a week or more after I wrote mine. My ideas are my own, Senator, and it's not my responsibility to improve your bill for you.
Honestly, I think it's shameful that you and Senator Tavira—who are unusually similar in temperament—are voting against this bill without any comment on what it is you don't agree with. Voting for personal reasons is a betrayal of your people and it is beneath the dignity of this Senate, as is the embarrassing comment Senator Tavira has made, the banality of which I would never lower myself to, Senator Zarcaine. I challenge anyone to find a statement I've made, ever, that is as childish and unimaginative as Senator Tavira's. If a Senator cannot separate himself from his ego and represent the will of his people in a temperate manner, he does not deserve to be a Senator. And the rest of us should not have to endure his capricious votes against our proposals to address the real problems of this galaxy.
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| Titus_Veritas | Date: Thursday, 06 Oct 2011, 0:08 AM | Message # 18 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 166
Status: Offline
| Here, here, Senator Cambrist. You speak of a trend which, while embodied it seems by Senator Zarcaine, has rooted itself within the Senate of lately. It seems that as soon as the Senator-elects pass through the application process, they immediately cease to represent their people and begin to represent themselves. Too many times have I seen debate remarks, and even votes, made not out of interest of the people a Senator was elected to represent as their chosen voice, but out of interest of themselves; a truly ethically repugnant act, which does not belong in the Empire, for it was this kind of representation that brought about the end of the Republic. I would rather see the Senate abolished for eternity, and all power invested within our Benevolent Emperor and his Ruling Council, before this type of representation becomes the standard of the Senate once more. I saw this once, and I can not stand idly by and watch it again.
I can, and will, attest to Senator Cambrist's claims of this legislation being written before yours, Senator Zarcaine. If you will recall, in our private conversation in spefic regards to your legislation, I referred to "other defense regulation proposals coming up"; two at least, to be precise. Senator Cambrist's was among them. Senator Cambrist also took care to consult me personally on several aspects on this legislation, ensuring that the legislation worked with the goals and plans of the Defense Committee; something lacking of any defense regulation bill thus far. No, asking me "What would you like to see put in it?", to paraphrase, is not consulting me. Nor is it truly consulting me, when I offer critique, or suggestion for the betterment of the legislation and to increase passabilty, only to be completely disregarded. Senator Cambrist was more than respectful and considerate in these regards, and more, in the process of working with him on his legislation. No, not all of my ideas made it into this legislation... those that did almost never did so as completely mind; however, Senator Cambrist considered the opinion given, and incorporated that whenever possible towards his ultimate goal.
Senator Cambrist should not be baselessly accused of plagiarism, nor when demanding specific examples of such by his accuser to merely be told by one to "look it up". The burden of proof is on the accuser, in the court of public opinion, and in that of law... which such claims would be thrown out before opening argument. Any one of the Senators in this hall can attest that Senator Cmabrist does not grab for glory, it is rather against his nature. The only claims to glory he has as a Senator is being the young Committee chair, and having the fastest ascent to a Committee chair, by a Senator in our history, dating back to the founding of the Republic. Has Senator Cambrist ever mentioned this, or used it in his politics? Not once. Senator Zarcaine, I feel these claims of glory mongering, are merely deflection from your own character; for it was you who wanted my aid so badly in repealing the Capital Vessels Acts, and just as quickly completely shoved me aside in your process of doing so. To me, that is grabbing for glory. To make a point, which I could not before your legislation was withdrawn, your bill, Senator Zarcaine, expanded the regulations tenfold from the Capital Vessels Acts in the long-run, down to setting up definitions of each type of craft. While I admire such a pursuit, as a universal type system is needed, something the Defense Committee, in conjunction with the Military Oversight Committee, plans to do by the end of next year; yours, simply, did not work. Your entire bill was based upon statistics, not even regulations, bureaucracy, nor military philosophy. It had good in it, yes... but it also had plenty of bad, bad which I wanted to help time out of and make into a better bill... but alas, you refused such an offer.
Senator Zarcaine, represent your people, not yourself. Stop being so vindictive and paranoid, it has alienated most of the Senate from you, and has at least half of the delegates arrayed against you. You are a good man at your core, I know it... you must be that man. The Cronese Mandate is an element of the Empire I have had the highest respect for. Out of your entire region, aside from the Allied Tion Sector under Moff Versio, you are the only one who is loyal, by choice, to the Empire. Think of that, Senator... of your own free will, you became a part of the Empire, a productive member and pillar of society. Is such a positive opinion of your government, and you, to be squandered away in a selfish wail of self-pity and loathing?
Senator Tavira... you, sir, are a child. Such juvenile actions are unbecoming of a Senator... an Imperial Senator. To steal your own wording, but "had you taken the time to look into things", you would have noticed that the sub-section in question, did not order, nor approve the transfer of Dxun back to Onderon... it endorsed the move by the Imperial government. Senator, how is this a bribe? The Senate is, by the passage of this legislation, and thus the sub-section, expressing its support of the move by the Imperial government to return Dxun to its rightful owners, the people of Iziz and Onderon. Your claim of a bribe is unwarranted, and your remarks are disrespectful and unbecoming. I suggest you apologize for your remarks, otherwise I would be supportive of at least a censure, if not suspension of definite period, for unparliamentary conduct.
Viceroy Titus Veritas, House Veritas
Consul of the House of Lords
Former Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (50 BBY - 30 BBY, 18 BBY - 10 BBY)
Former Chairman of the Imperial Senate Defense Committee (18 BBY - 10 BBY)
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Thursday, 06 Oct 2011, 10:04 AM | Message # 19 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I'm grateful to Senator Veritas for his kind words. And indeed, when you're the 83rd person in your family's lineage to be named Reuke ur'Tsyne Cambrist, the notion of personal "glory" is rather obtuse. We Cambrists are not egotists. But I digress, and I now draw the Senate's attention to these words from the Grand Vizier:
Quote (Sate_Pestage) A reminder though, to all Senators. It is common courtesy, both to the sponsor of a bill as well as to us all and to your people, to explain the reasoning for your vote. Simply voting for or against a measure without explanation is in poor taste, and it begs the possibility that you are voting for or against a measure for personal reasons or, worse, for financial or seditious reasons.
And while I hope the chair will disqualify the vengeful votes of Senators Zarcaine and Tavira on this basis, it's also my hope that the discussion can now return to the bill and its merits. I remain open to amendments, questions, and concerns.
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Thursday, 06 Oct 2011, 10:23 AM |
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| Verence_Terrawin | Date: Thursday, 06 Oct 2011, 1:07 PM | Message # 20 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 285
Status: Offline
| Will dangerous bombardment cannons such as those on the Munificent be legalised under this act? I am a little worried if that is the case - I believe we need an enduring regulation on such massive weapons of destruction.
Verence Terrawin
Senator of Alsakan
First Lord of the Foreign Office, Alsakan
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Thursday, 06 Oct 2011, 2:07 PM | Message # 21 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I agree, and I too would be concerned. It's possible these cannons may already be illegal under Senator Ryuun's Highly Destructive Ordnance Act, but if not I would support them being made so and Section 5.2 of this bill would indeed permit this.
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Thursday, 06 Oct 2011, 8:40 PM | Message # 22 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| Senator Tavira is called to order, and both he and Senator Kuriyoshi are warned to refrain from accusations with no demonstrable basis in fact. The status of Senator Kuriyoshi's vote is ambiguous, as he has taken a leave of absence without having explained the reason for his vote (as, indeed, he is required to do. There will be no "vendetta votes" in this Senate). Senator Tavira's vote will not be disqualified as long as he, too, can furnish us with the reasons for his vote. If he does not do so, and if the rest of Onderon's government is as obstinate as its Senator, the Empire will be forced to reconsider the pending return of Dxun to Onderon's control.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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| LordZarcaine | Date: Friday, 07 Oct 2011, 10:12 PM | Message # 23 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 192
Status: Offline
| The Cronese Mandate will be revoking its vote against and will be abstaining from this vote as requested by Robeir XXII of myself Representative Goodchild.
Lord Zarcaine Kuriyoshi
Lord of Chandaar
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| Raynar_Tavira | Date: Friday, 07 Oct 2011, 10:13 PM | Message # 24 |
 Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 22
Status: Offline
| Onderon also revokes its vote against and will also Abstain from voting on this Bill.
Galactic Senate
Onderon Representative
Member of the Council of Lords
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Saturday, 08 Oct 2011, 11:59 AM | Message # 25 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 353
Status: Offline
| With all bickering aside from those Senators whom do not wish to act professional, this bill clearly is a good middle-point and I will support this. I vote to approve.
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Saturday, 08 Oct 2011, 1:19 PM | Message # 26 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 881
Status: Offline
| After all the debates regarding the bill have been made, Telos IV moves to vote in favor of Senator Cambrist's proposal.
If I may add so, it is regrettable to see Senator Kuriyoshi lowering himself to a such behavior. While Senator Cambrist and I may not have always see eye to eye on a lot of things, I do not believe this man is a "glory seeker" as Senator Kuriyoshi has so boldly claimed. I know you are a good man, but it doesn't give you a right to accuse everyone just because the Senate did not want to take your approach on certain things. I am a forgiving person. I am speaking as one veteran to another. Before anyone charges you with slander, I beseech you to take your extreme views down a notch.
It will not do you any good to continue this behavior. I motion to propose that we close the votes, unless there's more votes coming.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Eli_Fitzgerald | Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2011, 5:50 PM | Message # 27 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 355
Status: Offline
| This isn't what I'd prefer to see, but I can't say that the bill's shift of power from Coruscant to the sectors isn't a step in the right direction. It is. I can't say I don't agree with the amendments the bill makes to the Self Defense Act about defense platforms and the insuring of poorer worlds, which is to everyone's benefit from poorer worlds to Ralltiir's financial sector. It's not as big a step as I'd like to see, but I can't vote against what seems to me a substantial improvement on the current law. But to actually vote in favor I'd like some assurance that this bill won't prevent self-regulation treaties of the sort I've advocated in the past few weeks. I'd still prefer those to a "Moff's way or the spaceway" approach.
Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)
"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."
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| Slai-Fon | Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2011, 10:38 PM | Message # 28 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 160
Status: Offline
| How about it, Senator Cambrist. Any assurance on Senator Fitzgerald's question?
Slai-Fon Youngblood, Senator of Anobis, and the Bright Jewel sector
Chairman of ISEC (Imperial Senate Ethic's Committee.)
Chairman & CEO of K/Y deep.
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2011, 11:35 PM | Message # 29 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| The Senator will be reassured to know that there's nothing in the bill that would preclude treaties to additionally regulate capital-class vessels among worlds on a voluntary basis. He'll also recall that some weeks ago I authored an amendment that no longer requires consent for the use of force if it's the result of treaty obligations.
Whether the Senator is persuaded to vote for the bill, however, I'm sure he agrees it's correct in its premise that sector Moffs have a better understanding of a sector's defense needs than Imperial Center does, and that Moffs are also in a better position to heed the interests and concerns of their worlds on this subject. I'm also pleased he sees the benefit of this bill to planets like Ralltiir and Aargau as well as to less privileged worlds like Anobis in need of defense loans.
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 11 Oct 2011, 1:52 AM | Message # 30 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| I have no problem with this, I vote in favour.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
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