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Reformation of the Ethics Committee
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:23 PM | Message # 16 |
 Major general
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| Please wake me when Senator Ordan is done.
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:31 PM | Message # 17 |
 Lieutenant general
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| I apologise if I bore you Senator Cerra, but (perhaps unlike yourself) I believe this is an important issue - you apparently see it as a chance to snipe away at myself, Governor Oswaldt and Chairman Youngblood.
And I chide you for your words unbecoming to a Senator. This is a serious matter which you are attempting to diminish in importance. You accuse me and then refuse to back it up, flirting with slander (as usual), this is no shock from a Senator who has been censured in the past for her intemperate and immoderate conduct.
Senator Thanatos, let it not be said that the Ethics Committee was opposed to the idea of diversity. I would like to discuss the issue first with the other committee members but I think after the Verilia investigation we would be very willing to nominate another to join the Committee and bring fresh perspectives to the table.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Janar_Cerra | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:34 PM | Message # 18 |
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Major general
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| I believe Senator Thantos has hit the nail on the head, many of the members of the current Ethics Committee are sexists and speicists. I for one would not trust the current Committee to fairly investigate anything into a being of non-human descent or female.
Ja'nar Cerra
Queen of Garos IV
Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:41 PM | Message # 19 |
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Lieutenant general
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| I resent those claims! They are both highly subjective terms.
While I may have certain views on women, I would not allow those views to colour my judgement, the same applies for aliens. I believe women are born and are perhaps fitted better for certain roles than men, and vice versa - that does not mean I would ever question the rights of women to pursue whatever path they wish in life, even if I may disagree with it. The same applies for aliens, I have no problem with aliens who work hard trying to make a credit like the next being.
The Ethics Committee is blind to race, creed or colour, all we have ever pursued is the truth. Truth above all is our creedo. And if an alien or woman came to us for investigation and was innocent, he or she would be declared as such.
I hasten to add, we have not shirked away from strict enforcement of the law against human males, and indeed the majority of individuals we have investigated have been human males. If you note, we are presently in the closing stage of the investigation into a rich human Moff.. We seek out injustice wherever it may have grown roots, irregardless of species or gender.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
Message edited by Senator_Ordan - Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 6:42 PM |
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 7:09 PM | Message # 20 |
 Colonel general
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| Please note, Senator, that I did not vote in favor of the reformation, simply pointed out why some might have issue with the committee members. I did not once state that they were unable to do their jobs due to these flaws, nor would I, as it is not my place nor yours to judge the questionable actions of some. Their personal feelings and actions are their own, as are yours and mine.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 11:09 PM | Message # 21 |
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| Senator Oswaldt, I was not handpicked by Lord Kuriyoshi to take his place, my appointment to this position was done so by Lord Robeir XXII of the house of Cron. The very same that Senator Terrawin has decided to openly state that the Mandate should not have representation in the Senate, because Lord Robeir is appointing those that represent the Mandate, although Senator Terrawin, if you dont like the fact that Lord Robeir is appointing those that represent the Mandate, you're welcome to try and blockade the Mandate, as it seems to be your answer for any and all problems that appear before you.
As for this entire call of "Cronism" and screaming and chest beating that the Mandate is a "warmonger" state, I'd like to bring up the record that the Mandate has used its fleet on two occasions. One on a diplomatic mission to defend the world of Monor II when it's government requested for help, and second to enforce a legal embargo. If you'd wish to continue to falsely accuse and claim the Mandate as being "warmongering" I suggest that you first take a look at how many times Alaskan or Axus has used its fleet in a military capacity compared to the peaceful actions of the Mandate fleets.
It has already been brought up by other Senators, the fact also remains that those current members on the Ethics Committee have before been known to make both Sexist and Speciests remarks. You can claim that you'll remain neutral all you want, yet can we consider it Ethical if one has already made up their mind on the matter at hand before hearing anything into it, or even taking a glimpse at what lays before them.
I will however take up Senator Ordan on his offer of adding another member to the Committee, and will submit a newly drafted form of this bill.
Reformation of the Ethics Committee
Section I
A new member is to be placed upon the Ethics Committee. Said new member will be chosen by the Senate, to ensure that the member chosen is one that can remain unbiased in all matters that are brought before the Ethics Committee.
Section II
The Cronese Mandate nominates that either Senator Fitzgerald, or Senator Vanden to be the new member of the Ethics Committee.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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| Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 4:18 AM | Message # 22 |
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| Proposal by Mr. Goodchild is a bold move. Proposing that the Ethics Committee be cleansed and replaced with others the man would see qualified to bow to his agenda is not the way to go. I believe Senator Youngblood has been nothing but fair to everyone. It is the seats that's currently being taken up that has me concerned. Which brings to the point, however how much I would appreciate someoneike Senator Fitzgerald and Representative Vanden take up leadership on the committee, it would not matter as long as people like Oswaldt and Ordan serve on the committee. They would still swing favors to their views. Thus, I propose not to have the seats vacated but rather fill in more seats. I would recommend bringing in more Senators with liberal views to even the political field out in order to give is a better Ethics Committee and to have a better and more neutral views on all current and future proceedings.
I will certainly not vote in favor of having previous proceedings be dismissed. I view this as nothing more than a personal attempt to save a friend in Moff Verilia.
Tremaine Fowlkes
Senator of Telos IV
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 6:19 AM | Message # 23 |
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| I don't see that it is Mr Goodchild's job (Verilia's advocate) to decide who should be on the Ethics Committee.
That is a choice for Chairman Slai Fon, and candidates should always be properly scrutinized by the committee before appointment - questioned on ethics and law etc.
As for the Axum System (I don't understand why you keep calling us Axus) using it's military, yes it does use it when it is needed - but it does explicitly not maintain an inappropriately large and growing fleet, nor does it cause problems with its neighbors.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Draken_Turot | Date: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 3:54 PM | Message # 24 |
 Major general
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| Of course! The non-believers of our glorious Empire trail together like rats! And of course, Senator Cerra acting even more rudely towards a humble member of the Ethics Committee! I also love how the Cronese Mandate completely ignores the role of Emperor Palpatine by selecting their own choice! Disgusting! I call for the chair to put this motion to bed! This is a useless waste of time!
Message edited by Xane_Ray - Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 3:54 PM |
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Thursday, 24 Nov 2011, 3:06 PM | Message # 25 |
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| Quote (Janar_Cerra) Garos IV has never been in favor of the Ethics Committee from the start.
The Senator reminds us she's not only been against me and Hubert but against the whole idea of an Ethics Committee and the idea of holding public figures to ethical standards of conduct. No doubt because Senator Cerra isnt exactly a paragon of ethical conduct herself and she thinks the people have no right to judge her for how she carries on. As for this accusation of me having "questionable dealings," prove it. I've never gotten drunk in public and fallen all over myself in a nightclub. I've never taken a bribe and i've never given special treatment to anyone. I'm definitely more ethical in my "dealings" than the Senatoress of Garos IV.
Quote (Janar_Cerra) many of the members of the current Ethics Committee are sexists and speicists.
What is ethical? The answer changes over time because ethics itself is something that changes over time. We had this debate already, and Senator Cerra lost because she's mired in the ethics of the past. The times have changed, Senator. This is the Imperial era, an era that rejects the ethical tyranny of requiring a man to pretend that an alien is his equal, or a woman or a droid or who knows what. Awhile back Senator Fowlkes said to me "I don't know how bigotry is embraced on your world," but Senator, Eriadu has no tolerance for the misanthrophic bigotry of aliens who contribute nothing to our society but demand all the benefits of society because they're "entitled" and "equal" to us. That's not ethical, and Eriadu understands that and the Empire understands that. So does the Ethics Committee, because its job is to represent the ethics of our time, not the ethics of the past that you Republicans cling to.. Ethics that brought us alien wars and alien greed and alien depravity. Enough is enough, that's what the Empire is about and that's what I say.
Quote (Mr_Goodchild) A new member is to be placed upon the Ethics Committee. Said new member will be chosen by the Senate, to ensure that the member chosen is one that can remain unbiased
Its the chairman's job to appoint new members. I'm not against having a new member and I dont know why Sly hasnt appointed anyone else. He was going to appoint Ilanah and I would be fine with that. But its not the Senate's job to appoint people and if you think having members of the Ethics Committee be politically appointed is somehow going to make them unbiased, you're in some other universe. Fitzgerald or Vanden, seriously? Vanden thinks the Empire destroyed Caamas and Fitzgerald wants another Confederacy. No offense but it has to be said, these people have crappy judgment and don't know what they're talking about.
Quote (Mr_Goodchild) Senator Oswaldt, I was not handpicked by Lord Kuriyoshi to take his place, my appointment to this position was done so by Lord Robeir XXII
Fine, you werent handpicked by Senator Zarcaine. You were handpicked by the same guy who handpicked Senator Zarcaine. Maybe the people of the Cronies Mandate should be able to pick their own Senator?
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Thursday, 24 Nov 2011, 4:36 PM | Message # 26 |
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| Quote (Johannes_Oswaldt) He was going to appoint Ilanah and I would be fine with that.
I appreciate the....sentiment, Governor. It means a lot coming from a man such as yourself.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Eli_Fitzgerald | Date: Friday, 25 Nov 2011, 11:11 PM | Message # 28 |
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| I vote in favor of this and I'm grateful the Cronese Mandate has nominated me for a seat on the committee. You should know that Senator Youngblood offered me a seat some time ago, but I declined at that time because I anticipated that an "ethics" committee with Senator Oswaldt and Senator Ordan would be a farce, and I was right. But I will give them credit for something I didn't expect them to do, and that's turning the committee's scrutiny to an Imperial Moff. This man, Darres Verilia, appears to be one of the most corrupt and intemperate Moffs in all of the Empire, if not the most. He also seems to have frustrated the committee's investigation at every turn. But I think the committee is right to investigate him, and needs to go even further. If a Moff can be this corrupt, then other Moffs can be corrupt too. These are individuals with an unprecedented amount of power, and how they're using that power is something the people deserve to know. Need to know, even.
That's what I intend to find out if I'm appointed to the committee. But I still feel the way I did when Senator Youngblood offered me a seat. Senator Ordan and Senator Oswaldt represent a certain point of view on the committee, and since Senator Youngblood has a need to be impartial, we need more than one other person to bring a meaningful diversity of views to the committee. Having to spar with Ordan and Oswaldt on what they consider to be "ethics" is a tiresome prospect to me unless there are other voices of reason on the committee too. So, while I do support this, I'll only take a seat on the committee if Senator Youngblood appoints an additional member also, or additional members. Either Senator Thanatos or Representative Vanden would be good choices, in my opinion.
Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)
"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."
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| Avadrie_volFyr | Date: Saturday, 26 Nov 2011, 1:02 AM | Message # 29 |
 Major general
Group: Users
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| Empress Teta votes against this measure.
It also offers the suggestion that perhaps if a new Senator is to be named to the Ethics committee, in what appears to be a very partisan argument, perhaps a less tenured Senator who has yet to become identified with either extreme right or extreme left be named?
Lady Avadrie volFyr
Senator of Empress Teta
Defense Committee Member
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Monday, 28 Nov 2011, 11:09 AM | Message # 30 |
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| On the assumption that votes for or against the measure prior to its amendment remain unchanged (Senators may correct me on this if they wish), the measure is defeated with 43% in favor and 57% opposed.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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