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Cronese Outrage Motion
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 1:27 AM | Message # 16 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
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| Which parts do you find unreasonable?
Does the commerce council find the Cronese ban on all (including essential goods) being imported to be just or conducive to good trade practice?
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 1:41 AM | Message # 17 |
 Lieutenant general
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| As you know, Senator Ordan, I am currently present at Chandaar with yourself and others who have sent vessels to attend. I hardly agree with the Cronese Mandate's action at Chandaar, though I do concur with Representative Lekpin's words on better preparedness. Druckenwell is in favor of actions against the Mandate for its attempt to interfere, but I would not make them so severe, Senator Ordan. The deaths of the freighter's crew and engineers are tragic losses, but perhaps it would be better to see things play out a bit more. Perhaps the Cronese will withdraw.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 2:01 AM | Message # 18 |
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Lieutenant general
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Messages: 633
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| Is there a specific provision you'd like struck down, Senator Lekpin or Ryuun, I'm happy as always to be reasonable and equitable..
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Roman_Lekpin | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 4:58 AM | Message # 19 |
 Colonel
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| I agree with the first provision, Senator Ordan:
"This Senate condemns the actions of the Cronese Fleet in attacking the civilian freighters supplying the Imperial Senate Coalition blockade at Chandaar."
There is no excuse for firing upon civilian vessels.
However, the following provisions:
"This Senate prohibits the production of warships within the Cronese Mandate (but does not place an injunction upon importation of said vessels)."
"This Senate authorizes the Emperor to use reasonable force to bring to heel the Cronese Government and Military, to implement this resolution, and to Imperialize Cronese forces and government to the extent they believe necessary in order to secure the citizens of the Empire (Cronese or otherwise), from the threat posed by the present policies of the Cronese Mandate."
These are unacceptable. If the Cronese want to build ships, then let them build ships. It's fairly obvious the ships they have are relatively lightly armed in the grand scheme of things. As well, the Senate need not authorize the Emperor to do this task. If anything, Senator Ordan, it is my opinion that this debacle could have been stopped long ago by imposing economic sanctions on the Cronese instead of blockading Chandaar. Instead, you were the chief supporter of blockading their capitol. As such, you and the forces with you; worlds that contributed to the blockade, should have the stomach to see it through. If you are going to execute a man, at least have the decency to do it yourself and not use the Imperial Navy as your headsman.
Roman Lekpin
Representative, Lorrd (11 BBY-10 BBY) (9 BBY-Present)
Chosen of House Garth
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 9:31 AM | Message # 20 |
 Lieutenant general
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| Not to digress, but Senator Ordan, the Commerce Committee is very troubled by what it's hearing from Chandaar. The Committee has no position on Senator Ordan's blockade, and while we're not supportive of the toll it is charging commercial ships to traverse its blockade, it doesn't dispute the necessity of it under the circumstances if the blockade is to have an actual punitive effect. But there is a question of degrees, here. Senator Ordan's blockade has at least permitted commerce to proceed with a toll, whereas it would appear that the Cronese Mandate is literally blockading its own planet and not letting anything past its ships. This Cronese blockade is, without doubt, far more damaging to its own planet and people than Senator Ordan's blockade.
To put it another way, to the people of Chandaar, Senator Ordan's blockade is an inconvenience, whereas the Cronese blockade is seriously harmful to Chandaar's people and economy. The Commerce Committee is unanimously against the profoundly ill-advised course of action that the Cronese Mandate has taken—it is harmful not only to those on Chandaar with no access to imports, but harmful to those on other worlds who receive Chandaar's exports. In most cases, the goods exported from Chandaar have already been bought and paid for, and the Cronese government is wantonly impounding other people's property.
What is most frustrating about this is how unnecessary it is. Why the Cronese government is inflicting this hurt on its people, I can't imagine. It's burning the village to save it, and it far surpasses the mere inconvenience of Senator Ordan's blockade.
The Commerce Committee calls on the Cronese to lift this regressive blockade of Chandaar and both sides to come to a swift diplomatic resolution of this conflict that is holding the lives and livelihoods of the people of Chandaar as its hostages.
Message edited by Senator_Cambrist - Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 9:33 AM |
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 9:46 AM | Message # 21 |
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| I see that it would appear Credits are more valuable than lives in these days and times. What other explanation is there when it seems that Senators are more intent on seeing commerce continue, regardless of the fact that it is continuing through a dangerous area where the blockading forces that have come to Chandaar have open fire just because our vessels are turning civilians away from the area to protect their lives. The plant of Chandaar has locked itself down to ensure the safety of our people. To ensure that while leaving their vessels are fired upon, as it would appear that Acherin has fired upon the star fighters that did nothing more than patrol around our world. The Cronese Mandate vessels have not fired a single shot, and half brained sentient at Chandaar can see this, yet they all decide to mindlessly follow Senator Ordans lies that we've fired on a Civilian vessel when we've done no such thing. We've not seized any vessels meant to be for the blockading forces, we've merely stopped them and turned them around to protect their lives and their property. Would you rather that the Cronese Mandate let these civilians into the dangerous area where the blockading forces have already opened fire, and see them be killed, only for Senator Ordan to turn around and claim that it is our fault for letting them in.
The Cronese Mandate would rather be attacked for preventing the loss of lives, then being attacked for letting civilians into a dangerous area and seeing them lose their lives. Although I have to admit, it is rather fun to watch Senator Ordan claim that we've killed innocents and fired on them first when we've taken no hostile action towards any vessel. From my understanding, Anaxes is considering war for trying to keep civilians alive, and Senator Ordan here has thrown a tantrum because he didn't get his way with Senator Lekpin.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 9:56 AM | Message # 22 |
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Lieutenant general
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| Senator Goodchild, You sir, are reprehensible. You are a man with no scruples. You're a worm, a toad. Thou beslubbering pampallian hedge-pig! I abominate you. You strangle your own people's trade and best interests and defend an ethnic policy which has resulted in the deaths of uncounted thousands throughout the sector. You have been seizing supply vessels (OOC: As you stated).
Senators, let it be seen that the Cronese Mandate is attempting to blockade it's own Capital, and to a ridiculous extent which goes beyond the mandate of Imperial Law. The Cronese Mandate fleet is cutting off it's people from trade and commerce, locking down their world with ridiculous protectionist measures! It is an out of control Rogue Sector which needs to be brought to heel.
There was no "danger" until your own fleet imposed one by locking down -all- trade, including in essential goods and medical supplies. This is the Cronese Mandate gentlemen, morally, economically and mentally bankrupt, a house of buffoonery and a shame to the name of the Empire. Thou art a fry of treachery unto the people of the Empire and the Cronese Mandate Mr Goodchild.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 10:02 AM | Message # 23 |
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Lieutenant general
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| It's dangerous for Cronese forces, apparently. I'm not aware of Senator Ordan's blockade firing on commercial ships or impeding them at all, other than imposing a toll on them and impounding them if they don't pay it (as blockades do). It would appear the people of Chandaar just want to go about their business and for the Cronese government to prevent them from doing so under the guise of "protecting them" from an imaginary threat is eminently unfair, not only to them but to those they do business with on other worlds. Everyone can see the situation is dangerous—it's a danger that responsible merchants can assess for themselves. Added (30 Mar 2012, 10:02 AM)
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For the record, it would appear I spoke over Senator Ordan, in part. My comments are intended as a response to Senator Goodchild.
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 10:06 AM | Message # 24 |
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Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 111
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| It would appear Senator Ordan that you've taken to the defense a toddler, to call one names in your continued attempt to appear greater than you are. I've seen it long enough that your continued attacks and blockades in the Outer Rim will damage it more than you claim it will help. You claim that the Mandate is morally, economically, and mentally bankrupt, and yet we're taking actions to ensure the safety of civilians, to ensure that their vessels are not fired upon, as your forces seem to fire upon vessels that have taken no hostile action against you, and the only action they've taken is to turn civilians away from being killed and having use blamed for it by you. You claim that we're economically bankrupt, yet look at the facts, the Mandate is an entire Sector, an entire Sector, not a single world like Anaxes. This blockade and lock down is nothing less than a fly buzzing. The planet of Chandaar will bounce back more readily, then a single world as it has the resources of an entire Sector at its back.
This blockade of yours, from all your claiming to be for good, is nothing less than a scheme to continue your own agenda to impose a rimward and corelistic view on the Outer Rim, and a ploy to extort money from those leaving the planet by charging them an exorbitant toll just to let them through. This is a blockade to impose your will on others and to gather credits for yourself.
You come here and you lie to the Imperial Senate, you give them false reports of actions that have not been taken, of lives that have not been loss due to any action of the Mandate vessels, and of false accusations against us because you are attempting to compensate for your own short comings. The Cronese Mandate has not taken any hostile action against the blockading forces, unless we've decided today to call saving Imperial Civilians lives a hostile action.
And Senator Cambrist, no Cronese Merchant vessels have left the Cronese Mandate since the Auril Sector has threatened to fire upon any Cronese Vessel leaving the borders of the Mandate.
I've also just received word, that after being fired upon for taking actions to ensure the safety of civilians, the Cronese Mandate vessels took the proper actions and did not return fire, as they've never opened fire on any vessels, civilian or otherwise, and have since left the system. Chandaar will lift its own lock down, however, the people are doing the sensible thing and remaining on the planet instead of paying the blockades extortion money to allow them to leave.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
Message edited by Mr_Goodchild - Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 10:28 AM |
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| Roman_Lekpin | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 10:42 AM | Message # 25 |
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Colonel
Group: Users
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| Representative Goodchild, it's not often I have dealings with the Cronese Mandate or you as it's patron here in the Senate. Let me offer you some advice, hard as it may be to swallow: withdraw your vessels and fleets from Chandaar. Make no threatening moves from your stations and pull your fighters inside their bays. In short, give no reason for Senator Ordan or his blockade teams to assault you. Sit out the indignity of the blockade, if you wish, or capitulate to their demands and publish whatever statements they wish you to publish. That choice is yours. Nonetheless, you do all the Cronese a great disservice by halting trade; the Auril Sector cannot legally fire upon your trade vessels, and if they do so, you would be right to bring that to the Senate.
This is my advice to you, Representative Goodchild, to bring a peaceful resolution to all of this mess. The choice on whether or not you do it is yours.
Roman Lekpin
Representative, Lorrd (11 BBY-10 BBY) (9 BBY-Present)
Chosen of House Garth
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 10:47 AM | Message # 26 |
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Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
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| Senator Lekpin, as I've already said, the Cronese Mandate vessels have been withdrawn, and Chandaar is lifting its lockdown. The people though are doing the sensible thing and remaining on world, rather than paying the extortion money that Senator Ordan's blockade is demanding.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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| Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Friday, 30 Mar 2012, 11:50 AM | Message # 27 |
 Colonel general
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| It is good to see that you are doing the sensible thing for your people, Representative. Despite this, I still find myself inclined to support Senator Ordan's motion. I have heard of some civilian vessels leaving Chandaar, so please further consider how the situation if affecting the people that you have taken a vow to represent to the best of your ability. With their best interests in mind.
As a further note, Senator Ordan, is name calling necessary? You are a grown man of station, and I would hope that you would not want to lower yourself to such standards.
Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Saturday, 31 Mar 2012, 1:45 PM | Message # 28 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
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| Would the Senator of Anaxes please update us on the status of this motion? Is it still on the table, in light of recent Cronese concessions? And are Senator Lekpin's amendments adopted? Also, I ask the Senator of Druckenwell to clarify for the record whether he is or isn't in favor of this motion—you appear to have voted in favor of the motion and proceeded to express opposition to certain parts of it. I'd prefer this be clarified before votes are tallied, if you would, Senator.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Saturday, 31 Mar 2012, 6:37 PM | Message # 29 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
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| I am still in favor of it, providing Representative Lekpin's amendments are adopted.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Mr_Goodchild | Date: Saturday, 31 Mar 2012, 6:47 PM | Message # 30 |
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Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 111
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| Quote (Roman_Lekpin) "This Senate condemns the actions of the Cronese Fleet in attacking the civilian freighters supplying the Imperial Senate Coalition blockade at Chandaar."
I must protest about this part of the Motion. The Cronese Mandate did not open fire on any Civilian Vessels.
Mr. Goodchild
Minister of State
Representative of the Cronese Mandate
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