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Outrage!
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Tuesday, 03 Jul 2012, 12:38 PM | Message # 31 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
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| Senator Domon,
All individuals are expected to be fully aware of the law. They were presented with a copy of their rights which they signed before the trial began - none of the individuals involved had any questions regarding this document.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Tuesday, 03 Jul 2012, 4:46 PM | Message # 32 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 250
Status: Offline
| Domon is right, Sleazys aren't "warlike beings." Bunch of cold-blooded schemers is what they are. No stomach for a fair fight. (Or any stomach as far as I know). I can't believe Domon is standing here trashing an ancient and respected human court because it didn't let him get his Sleazy, slimy tentacles on the court records and documents, Etc. Domon says no court could possibly find a member of his race guilty of anything. 'Sleazys do no wrong.' 'We're better than you damn, dirty apes.' Oh yes, we know all about you on Eriadu. You take and take and take from hard-working humans and use human wealth, created by humans, to fund your Separatist nostalgia trips. Let's not forget, the Sleazys were supporters of the alien-supremacist Confederacy in the Clone Wars, and the war may be over but the Sleazy racial superiority complex isn't. We won the war, boy. Human High Culture is the law of the land now.. Keep on trashing human courts and I'll have all the Sleazys on Eriadu deported. To the sun.
(And no, Senator Cerra. I don't mean that literally. So let's pass on the trandoshan tears about it, ok?)
By the way, as some of you may have noticed, I'm back. I concluded most of my business on Eriadu and Senator Haras is home on maternity leave. Some of you may know she's the proud mother of 17 children.
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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| Toben-Domon | Date: Wednesday, 04 Jul 2012, 10:32 AM | Message # 33 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 347
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| Senator Oriel,
Perhaps all individuals must be aware of Imperial law, which holds precedence over all planetary law, as far as I know. It is impossible to expect any being to be aware of ever miniscule detail of all planetary laws.
Governor Oswaldt... what a... pleasant surprise to have you back. It's good to see you're still in your old humor. A few pointers I might make, as I fear your eyesight is failing you; I do not have tentacles. I have never stated that any court cannot find a Sluissi guilty of anything. I am simply questioning certain facts that do not match; any being with common sense would do the same.
We take nothing from any hardworking species, human or otherwise. I might add as well that Sluis Van and the Sluis Sector supports the Empire. Simply because a certain government supported an incorrect movement does not mean the current political regime does.
Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Wednesday, 04 Jul 2012, 11:16 AM | Message # 34 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
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| I don't see Imperial Law as having any jurisdiction in the matter - the Empire has always tolerated the traditional modes of Justice in it's member worlds. Naturally, the Emperor has final discretion but I think based on the evidence his Imperial Majesty would be pleased with the result. Thus as there is no positive statute stating the burden of proof should be the same as that which is used by the Imperial Courts (which I find our world meets - although you clearly don't) is as it is a sheerly planetary matter - planetary law takes precedent..
As for the law.. ignorantia juris non excusat, you are expected to know the laws of a jurisdiction you enter.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Friday, 06 Jul 2012, 8:36 AM | Message # 35 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| As the Senate's resident legal expert, I feel I should state that the principle of ignorantia juris non excusat is indeed a valid legal principle which exists in nearly every legal system fashioned on the Core model. However, it is always the prerogative of the judge to consider it as partial mitigation if the law is poorly understood or obscure.
However, the justice here clearly offered the Sluissi their chance to appoint an attorney, unfortunately they clearly were not aware of the principle Stultus homo repraesentat ipse cliens or in the vulgate A man who represents himself has a fool for a client, and as such assert that where available it is always wise to seek legal help, especially if away from home.
Finally, I'd like to take this moment to condemn Sluis Van for attempting to paint this as a conspiracy rather than accepting the ruling of a highly respected human Justice. What possible motive has Vjun for severing ties with it's main manufacturer of vessels? Anaxes formally offers to purchase the vessel in question so that we might investigate the technology of these anti-humans.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
Message edited by Senator_Ordan - Friday, 06 Jul 2012, 8:36 AM |
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| Schmuel_Kadram | Date: Friday, 06 Jul 2012, 8:40 AM | Message # 36 |
 Lieutenant
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Messages: 68
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| Rothana also adds its support to the sentiment of Senator Cambrist, this rogue shipyard has too long attempted to draw business away from the manufacturers who helped win the Clone Wars. Let us not forget, Senators, that the Sluissi, and their shipyards, were 100% behind the Confederacy of Independent Systems and providing Dooku with vessels with which to disrupt galactic commerce and take countless lives.
We find that this matter could have been predicted well in advance and offer our services to Vjun to replace it's vessel with one of our Corvettes.
Schmuel Kadram
Governor of Rothana
Junior Vice President of Operations KDY
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| Toben-Domon | Date: Friday, 06 Jul 2012, 11:41 AM | Message # 37 |
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Major general
Group: Users
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| You are more than welcome to purchase the vessel, Senator Ordan. The Intrepid-class corvette was one of the first models we produced and I fear, not a perfect example of what came later in the designs.
Governor Kadram, the entire coverage of the CIS and the involvement of Sluis Van has been brought up too many times to count. The fact that we are now loyal, contributing members of the Empire stands proof enough. If Vjun wishes to distance itself from Sluis Van Shipyards products, let it do so. I see no further need to drag this matter out in the Senate. The Imperial courts can handle the legal matters while we turn to important measures, some of which, if I may recall, were directed to us to resolve by Chairman Pestage.
Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Friday, 06 Jul 2012, 7:40 PM | Message # 38 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 250
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| For someone who's a happy member of the Empire, you sure are touchy about your Separatist past. Saying, oh, it was just one Sleazy leader who was a Separatist last week means another leader can be a Separatist next week. Just because you're "contributing members of the Empire" today doesn't mean you want to be or will when another war comes around. That's why you need to say your Separatist past was wrong.
And yes, the Sleazys take and take from human.s What are your exports? Ships. Who pays for them? Your customers, mostly humans. That is, human wealth. No, I'm not wrong. It's human money that keeps your planet out of the stone age, but you know what's right and wrong and we're all smelly apes, is that it?
Why would Vjun "distance itself from Sluis Van Shipyards products"? Oh, because you rigged them to explode, that's why. The Sleazy contempt for humanity is so obvious I'm concerned this is the first step in a campaign of mass-sabotage of the human race. That the Sleazys are setting us all up ahead of a Second Clone War. Let's not forget the Separatists schemed and plotted for war in secret. For all we know, the Sleazys are planting bombs in all the ships they sell to humans. Why doesn't the Sleazy senator want to talk about this? Why hasn't he denied it?Added (06 Jul 2012, 7:40 PM)
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Solidarity, senators! I call for the humans in this chamber to stand in solidarity with your fellow man.
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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| Toben-Domon | Date: Sunday, 08 Jul 2012, 8:49 AM | Message # 39 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 347
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| Think of us what you will, Governor, but Sluis Van has taken steps to condemn the old regime and we have admitted, more than once, that the prior regime's siding with the Separatists was very wrong.
I might add that it's more than humans who purchase from Sluis Van Shipyards, and all buyers purchase from us because we sell quality product. Also, I don't recall ever insulting humans in this chamber.
As for denial of sabotage of Vjun's vessel? I have denied it. I have not seen proof to either side, but we have never once sabotaged a vessel we've sold to a loyal customer. You're taking this to a ridiculous level, Governor and planting bombs in ships we sell would only hurt us in the end. Surely even you cannot be so foolish as to not see that.
Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
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| Alyn_Stark | Date: Sunday, 08 Jul 2012, 9:09 AM | Message # 40 |
 Generalissimo
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| Senators, senators, may I interject here? It seems that many times in the past, the voice of Lorrd has been one of reason that can often soothe the masses and provide that unique perspective that allows for calmer heads to prevail.
What we have here, in all apparent nature, is an attempt by a group of Sluissi who attempted to sabotage a Vjunite vessel. Governor Oswaldt, no man can doubt your commitment to Human High Culture, the Empire and your world of Eriadu and in this I applaud you as a man of being and stature.
However, we must also look at the broader spectrum and not let a colorful past cloud our judgment. No other product produced by Sluis Van Shipyards since they have become productive members of the Empire (a fact that none of us can deny) has suffered sabotage or anything close. If anything, Sluis Van Shipyards, aside from being non-human owned, has as good a track record as Kuat Drive Yards, Lorrd Engineering, Rothana Shipyards and all the rest of the large companies.
Before we cast extreme aspersions, gentlebeings, let us get to the root of the matter with this specific incident.
Alyn Stark
Lord of Kinyov
Senior Captain, Retired, Republic Navy
Head of House Malos (former)
Licensed bounty hunter
Majority shareholder, Lorrd Engineering
Owner, Stark Defense Conglomerate
Civilian Medal of Honor recipient
Representative, Lorrd (10 BBY-9 BBY)
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Sunday, 08 Jul 2012, 10:35 AM | Message # 41 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 250
Status: Offline
| Did you seriously just put Lorrd Engineering in the same category as Kuat Drive Yards and "the rest of the large companies"? Don't let's be silly.. Even Eriadu's shipyards can crank out more ships in a day than Lorrd can build in a week. And Roman Lekpin was a voice of reason in this Senate. You Sir are no Roman Lekpin. You're a law-breaker and a shameless self-promoter. Look, I get it.. You got Domon to support your application to the Senate and now you're the one scratching his] scaly, slimy back. Don't do it, Stark. You're human enough to have some self-respect.
"No other product produced by Sluis Van Shipyards has suffered sabotage or anything close." THAT WE KNOW OF. Vjun discovered this bomb plot by accident. Who knows how many other bombs there are. Question is... Is anyone comfortable setting foot on a Sleazy-made ship? I'm not. Don't ask me why the Sleazys did this. I don't know, but I want to know. Domon doesn't want to know.. The bomber confessed to a conspiracy and Domon instantly denies there's a conspiracy. No investigation at all. Instead he's obsessed with proving the bomber innocent (ie. "wrong").. Something evil is happening here senators.....
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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| Alyn_Stark | Date: Sunday, 08 Jul 2012, 10:53 AM | Message # 42 |
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Generalissimo
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| "Perhaps a bit of an overstatement, Governor. Nonetheless, Lorrd Engineering supplies far more than ships, perhaps to their detriment. However, while I can admit that I have promoted good things, I certainly can't admit to having the largest ego in the Senate. I fear that odd honor belongs to a few others." Stark kept his voice pleasant and faintly amused as he addressed Oswaldt.
"And for goodness' sakes, are you still harping about that issue during the Droid Uprising? At the end of the day, I saved a man's life. Even I can admit that I went about it the wrong way, but what is, is. I can also happily report that Mr. Lekpin is well on his way to a full recovery.
"On to other matters though, simply because Senator Domon backed my entry into the Senate, I might add he was one name among several. Let's not drop to petty insults, shall we?
"I want answers to those questions as well, Governor. I want to know why Senator Domon leaped to the defense of his engineers. I want to know more details of the trial. I want to know why the Centax-class heavy frigates that are produced by Sluis Van Shipyards and assembled at Centax-1, ships utilized by the Republic Naval Forces and in continuing use by the Empire, have not suffered sabotage if all this is true. Then again, Governor, you and I are human, or perhaps you forget? The Sluissi think differently than us and we can hardly fault them for their way of thinking. I would much rather hear Senator Domon's explanations rather than harangue the fellow until he can't answer properly."
Alyn Stark
Lord of Kinyov
Senior Captain, Retired, Republic Navy
Head of House Malos (former)
Licensed bounty hunter
Majority shareholder, Lorrd Engineering
Owner, Stark Defense Conglomerate
Civilian Medal of Honor recipient
Representative, Lorrd (10 BBY-9 BBY)
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| Schmuel_Kadram | Date: Sunday, 08 Jul 2012, 11:04 AM | Message # 43 |
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Lieutenant
Group: Users
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| Rothana would also like to strongly state it's disapproval with Lorrd Engineering being listed as a large shipyard. Shameless prostitution of your image may have served you well in your business ventures thus far, but in Galactic Politics, what counts are facts. And it is a fact that Lorrd Engineering is a small shipyard of little significance in contrast to "mere" subsidiaries of the larger companies. As an example, Kuat Drive Yards loyal Subsidiary Rothana Heavy Engineering maintains dozens of times the production capacity of Lorrd Engineering, a skill and expertise it put to good use defending our state in the Clone Wars.
We call upon the navy to consider whether they wish to continue endorsing an Alien Shipwright or if they wish to pull the Centax-class from service as a matter of urgency - or at the least have a reputable human shipyard check them over to check for tampering - perhaps all Sluissi vessels have more subtle self-destruction devices incorporated? Hidden slave circuits perhaps.
What is apparent is that the Sluissi cannot be trusted.
Schmuel Kadram
Governor of Rothana
Junior Vice President of Operations KDY
Message edited by Schmuel_Kadram - Sunday, 08 Jul 2012, 11:07 AM |
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| Toben-Domon | Date: Sunday, 08 Jul 2012, 11:27 AM | Message # 44 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 347
Status: Offline
| Nobody likes to air their dirty laundry, Oswaldt. If you'll recall the issues between Brentaal and Sluis Van in the past, Senator Cambrist and I have worked quietly to resolve those issues. An investigation as to claims of government-based sabotage is underway on Sluis Van, but we preferred not to place this matter before the Senate at this time until results are found.
Senator Kadram, I might add that the contracts Sluis Van Shipyards holds with the Empire and the Republic before it have ever been favorable ones that have been helpful to the current regime. I can see the interest Rothana might have, being after all, a subsidiary of Kuat Drive Yards, to increase it's production ability by denying a loyal company the building rights from Imperial contracting.
Toben Domon
Senator, Sluis Van
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| Alyn_Stark | Date: Sunday, 08 Jul 2012, 11:31 AM | Message # 45 |
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Generalissimo
Group: Users
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| Your disapproval is noted, Senator Kadram, and duly set aside. Facts may be facts, and if we are talking facts, then Lorrd Engineering does indeed serve the Imperial might with subcontracts from Corellian Engineering Corporation, as well as with its own work. Let's not have a contest of 'whose shipyard is larger than whose.' In contrast, Lorrd Engineering tends to provide a wider variety of products, as I already mentioned to Governor Oswaldt.
This is all a small matter besides the focus at hand. I'm not making this personal on any level; I simply want justice done and the correct facts shown.
Alyn Stark
Lord of Kinyov
Senior Captain, Retired, Republic Navy
Head of House Malos (former)
Licensed bounty hunter
Majority shareholder, Lorrd Engineering
Owner, Stark Defense Conglomerate
Civilian Medal of Honor recipient
Representative, Lorrd (10 BBY-9 BBY)
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