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The Imperial National Anthem Act
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Saturday, 15 Sep 2012, 3:24 PM | Message # 1 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| The Imperial Anthem Act
Purpose- To ensure that schools galaxy-wide show their support of the Galactic Empire and that school-age children may know the Empire is there to embrace them like a loving parent, a constant to defend and protect them.
Article I-
- The Imperial Anthem will be played by schools on all member worlds at the start of each school day. Children within these schools will be mandated to stand and salute the flag at this time.
Article II-
- Non-auditory means of displaying patriotism, where appropriate, can be granted at the discretion of the local Imperial Governor or Sector Moff.
This article helps back the power of the Empire, retain our presence in the hearts and minds of those worlds who are a part of us and strengthens us as a part of the Galactic Empire.
I am fully in favor.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
Message edited by LomenRyuun - Saturday, 22 Sep 2012, 2:20 PM |
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| Alyn_Stark | Date: Saturday, 15 Sep 2012, 10:11 PM | Message # 2 |
 Generalissimo
Group: Users
Messages: 1359
Status: Offline
| I am in favor as well.
Alyn Stark
Lord of Kinyov
Senior Captain, Retired, Republic Navy
Head of House Malos (former)
Licensed bounty hunter
Majority shareholder, Lorrd Engineering
Owner, Stark Defense Conglomerate
Civilian Medal of Honor recipient
Representative, Lorrd (10 BBY-9 BBY)
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Sunday, 16 Sep 2012, 4:35 AM | Message # 3 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| Encouraged? Why not mandated to salute the flag?
Also, and I am always open to being proven wrong, but is the Empire rather more than a "nation" and so the term "national anthem" seems wantonly inappropriate?
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Sunday, 16 Sep 2012, 5:35 AM | Message # 4 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| Not all children understand the necessity, Senator Oriel, behind the salute of a flag. If you tell a child to do something new, they do not always do it. Encouraged, for children, is quite acceptable at this time.
The Empire is our one, galactic nation, Senator Oriel. Our nation has no physical borders and we are all a part of it.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 17 Sep 2012, 3:22 AM | Message # 5 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| However much you dance around this the Empire is not a nation. The term in normal speech is used to designate a group of people within a given space of land on a world. The Empire is an Empire and I feel you demean it's name by calling it a name even in your attempt at metaphor. Just "The Imperial Anthem" or "The March of the Imperial Navy" is more appropriate a choice of words and would avoid confusion.
I'd prefer the whole act just be replaced by "A patriotic Imperial song or poem shall be played or read at the start of each day in the appropriate language or audio range"
As for children, they should be compelled to obedience; like all citizens - this would help them learn their place vastly better than a vague suggestion to salute.
Again - you've gone for a strange view that mandates only for worlds like yours.
What of schools for the deaf or people/species who do not communicate using auditory means. This act is another discriminatory farce.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 17 Sep 2012, 5:00 AM | Message # 6 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| You'll find some wording changed again, Senator Oriel.
Deaf people should have auditory implants, in my opinion. Even if they cannot hear the music, they can still salute the flag. As for other species? My primary concern is the Human species, Senator. Perhaps you should recall that fact.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 17 Sep 2012, 6:10 AM | Message # 7 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| Is it not those benighted with the curse of being born inhuman who are -most- in need of patriotic sentiment so that they might hope to improve themselves from the base state in which they are born?
And.. Senator - you have not addressed my point about the minority of humans who do not communicate orally or do not make or listen to music.
These measures aren't even humanocentric - they're just badly thought out and poorly drafted - you've essentially just plagiarised my suggestion and and still failed to account for the groups stated.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 17 Sep 2012, 8:36 AM | Message # 8 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| Hardly, Senator. Humans who do not communicate orally and do not make or listen to music are still capable of listening and, barring some deformity, saluting.
As for those who are not Human? They can learn to adapt and overcome. This is a unified Empire, Senator Oriel. As I've said on other measures, if you do not like it, then don't vote for it.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Alyn_Stark | Date: Monday, 17 Sep 2012, 8:40 AM | Message # 9 |
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Generalissimo
Group: Users
Messages: 1359
Status: Offline
| I must say, the Senate hasn't been quite the same without Senator Oriel around to nitpick at everything.
Alyn Stark
Lord of Kinyov
Senior Captain, Retired, Republic Navy
Head of House Malos (former)
Licensed bounty hunter
Majority shareholder, Lorrd Engineering
Owner, Stark Defense Conglomerate
Civilian Medal of Honor recipient
Representative, Lorrd (10 BBY-9 BBY)
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 17 Sep 2012, 9:25 AM | Message # 10 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
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| So you are in favour of deaf or those who don't communicate using auditory means showing a symbol of patriotism they will neither understand nor gain anything from?
This is a bureaucratic waste of time that makes a farce of what patriotism is and shows you -clearly- misunderstand patriotism in the Empire. There is no point in pointless conformity to a ritual that beings neither understand or in some cases can even comprehend, that would not be patriotism Senator Ryuun. That would be a bizarre and cultish quasi religious practice - religion is performed blindly with no understanding, reason or explanation and that is why religion and this motions attempt to effectively turn Imperial patriotism into religion is wrong.
Imperial child citizens should be educated about the Empire, its many and varied acomplishments, the many enemies conquered and the diversity and multitude over which the Empire of Humanity rules, expressed in whatever form is best suited to their culture. A daily expression of admiration is useful, but not on which isn't intelligible, one which is not understood smacks of the more psychotic pronouncements of the more deranged type of prophet.
Yes, I feel it would be good for each of these cultures to be able to listen to the sentiments behind the Imperial Navy March before education commences each day - but if it is not understood, and not put in a sensible context, then it is a collosal waste of time.
Salutes take many forms, do you propose to standardise them too? If not why not when you intend to standardise the music. Why not canonize the ritual you wish to write into law?
One cultures salute is another curse - the Ord Anglosphere hand gesture for "OK" is a euphamism for anal sex on Ord Brasil, the Americaooine hand gesture for two (referred to as a peace sign there) is considered (when the finger-nails face someone you're talking to) to mean that they ought to proceed to copulate with themselves.
And to Senator Stark - your observation is as productive, useful and insightful as I have come to expect. It is perhaps an act of providence that the rest of the Senate values draftsmanship or else we would live in a state with a vast raft of unworkable and irrelevant laws.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Alyn_Stark | Date: Monday, 17 Sep 2012, 4:01 PM | Message # 11 |
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Generalissimo
Group: Users
Messages: 1359
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| I just find your enthusiasm to tear apart a loyalist's bill a little startling, especially after your long absence in which you apparently did not take the time to notify anybody. Ryuun's heart is in the right place. Perhaps instead of belittling the man, you could help him and make a joint bill? That would be far better for the morale of the Senate rather than watch a Senator who has been notoriously absent for some time offer only non-constructive criticism upon a Senator who has never even taken so much as a sick-day, or at least from what Senator Ryuun's record has said.
Alyn Stark
Lord of Kinyov
Senior Captain, Retired, Republic Navy
Head of House Malos (former)
Licensed bounty hunter
Majority shareholder, Lorrd Engineering
Owner, Stark Defense Conglomerate
Civilian Medal of Honor recipient
Representative, Lorrd (10 BBY-9 BBY)
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Tuesday, 18 Sep 2012, 3:17 AM | Message # 12 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| So you too advocate blind actions of patriotism Senator Stark?
I dont question Senator Ryuuns patriotic intentions but this motion will serve to turn patriotism into idle obervance. I dont hesitate to scrutinize acts from patriots or those who waver - I impartially do my job. I don't preclude the possibility of working with him on an act which would genuinely reinforce patriotism but absolutely will not support an act which has the effect of creating "plastic patriots" in the Empire. We are an Empire of substance where patriotism means something, lets not turn it into pointless observance.
The notion that I should in some form fail to perform the role I am sworn by oath and contract to follow because my opposition is a patriot is nonsense. The notion also that I somehow I owe Senator Ryuun anything for taking time off to recoup from wounds sustained in the line of duty cavorts and emulates the worst corrupt excesses of the Old Republic.
What you consider mocking is no more than telling Senator Ryuun that this act and the effects it will cause are wrong, due to the fact it is poorly and clearly hurridley drafted - I urge Senator Ryuun to withdraw it until such a time as he has thought about the relevent multitude and diversity encompassed by the Empire and then to sit down and think about what patriotism actually -is- then, and only then, to propose a motion designed to instill it.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Tuesday, 18 Sep 2012, 2:36 PM | Message # 13 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 250
Status: Offline
| I vote in favor. I have to admire Bernard's stand on this, but Ryuun's amendments sealed the deal for me. And I don't support special consideration or treatment of non-Humans. I fear for the species that biologically can't hear the Imperial March as it was meant to be heard. This sort of totally inhuman species isn't only missing the song, it's probably missing the point of the New Order in a lot of other ways and I don't think special treatment or "affirmative action" is going to change that. Some species are fallen and can't be caught. It's a shame and all, but it's nothing Human students should be made to cry about.
Humans should take pride in their race and their Empire. The Imperial March (not a "national" anthem, by the way) is part of that. Playing the Imperial March at the beginning of the school day isn't about telling students what the Empire means to them, it reminds them what it means to them. And it reminds them that their success in school is part of the success of the Empire and the success of the Human race.
Alien species are tone deaf to this and in my opinion it's a waste of time to try to make them understand.
Johannes Oswaldt
Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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| Sate_Pestage | Date: Thursday, 20 Sep 2012, 7:07 PM | Message # 14 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| Are there no further votes on this measure, Senators?
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Friday, 21 Sep 2012, 7:01 AM | Message # 15 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| I do think it's desirable that Aliens or non-auditory communicating humans are able to understand the sentiments the Imperial Anthem conveys - they require it for their self betterment.
Would you put in permission to use a non-auditory means of displaying patriotism (where appropriate) at the discretion of the local Imperial Governor or Sector Moff?
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
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Order of the Canted Circle
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