Requested Removal of Separatist Vessels

Roman_Lekpin

Date: Sunday, 30 Sep 2012, 6:56 AM | Message # 1

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Purpose- Understanding that not all Imperial member worlds possessing outdated Separatist vessels have the ability or funding to see these vessels removed, this legislature is intended to create an option to encourage said worlds to transition from the increasingly obsolete vessels to newer vessels that will still provide planetary defense without compromising the security or budget of said worlds.

Article I- Separatist vessels chosen to be removed or dismantled by Imperial member worlds will be transported to a number of shipyards eligible and capable of deconstructing and scrapping said vessels.

Article II- Profits gained from dismantling Separatist vessels will go to the shipyard(s) in question dismantling the vessels.

Article III- A tax rebate of the value of the vessel(s) being dismantled will be granted to the world owning the vessel(s).

Article IV- Any extra profits gained from the scrapping of the vessel(s) will be kept by the shipyard in question who undertook the given contract.

Article V- The process of deconstruction of such vessels will be open for any shipyard willing to take on the job. Planetary governments may contact their choice of shipyard to see availability.

Article VI- No world claiming compensation under Article III of this act shall be entitled to special lending under Article V of the Self Defense Act.

Definitions- 'Separatist vessels' will be defined as the vessels seen in majority use by the Separatist movement during the time of the existence of the Confederacy of Independent Systems. The most common vessels are listed as follows:

Lucrehulk-class battleship (to include Droid control Ship and Core Ship variants)
Diamond-class cruiser
Providence-class carrier/destroyer
Lucrehulk-class cruiser
Lucrehulk-class destroyer
Recusant-class light destroyer
Munificent-class frigate

Roman Lekpin
Representative, Lorrd (11 BBY-10 BBY) (9 BBY-Present)
Chosen of House Garth

Message edited by Roman_Lekpin - Thursday, 18 Oct 2012, 5:56 PM

Senator_Ordan

Date: Monday, 01 Oct 2012, 1:13 PM | Message # 2

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Of course Druckenwell is set up to scrap Separatist ships, I wonder what percentage of them were produced by the dock which now wishes the Empire to grant contract for their scrapping?

I don't advocate a no-bid contract in this case, especially gifting money to an Outer Rim Former Separatist shipyard. Senator Ryuun, your world reaped a profit off the construction of these vessels - the Republic (now Empire) took a loss in the form of the damage they did to our industries, shipping and Navy.. Why does Druckenwell deserve any share of the profit generated by their scrapping?

Also, a 15% Tax exemption? This is massive and unwarranted, most worlds don't spend that high a number on fleets generally. These vessels are outdated and outclassed, I see no reason to reward worlds quite so wantonly for just accepting the progress of technology and evolution instead of trying to stand against the tide.

Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________

Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
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Owner of Azure Durasteel
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Roman_Lekpin

Date: Monday, 01 Oct 2012, 2:55 PM | Message # 3

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Senator Ordan, a fifteen percent tax cut is meant as an incentive. Naturally, any world wishing to hold on to their Separatist vessels, though I can't see why they would, is still more than able to. However, after hearing from more of the Senate, I am willing to consider reducing it to ten percent.

Roman Lekpin
Representative, Lorrd (11 BBY-10 BBY) (9 BBY-Present)
Chosen of House Garth

Draken_Turot

Date: Monday, 01 Oct 2012, 3:05 PM | Message # 4

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This is an issue I foresee not too many individuals taking up on anytime soon, especially me! For now, I'd like to see an amendment to 10%! And should this be something taken by everything, then I can see the 15% coming in as a reward! So until this 15% tax exemption becomes 10%, Acherin will not vote in favor!!!

And just so I'm clear, Rome!!! This is not something mandatory, correct?!!

LomenRyuun

Date: Monday, 01 Oct 2012, 3:06 PM | Message # 5

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Still blowing that old horn, eh, Senator? I'll remind you all once again that I was not of the administration when Druckenwell served the Separatist cause, and over the years since then, we have worked quite hard to repair our name in the eyes of the Empire. I'd say it is kind of Representative Lekpin to include us so that we might help. After all, Druckenwell Shipyards is a very capable place to take this work. It helps in part to demonstrate our loyalty in our willingness to forgo other jobs in order to scrap the Separatist vessels.

I am also not a believer of sins of the father being visited down on further generations. None of our current employees of Druckenwell Shipyards were employed during the time of the Clone Wars, and no small few are veterans of the Republic military. I see no reason for them to do the work for free.

Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation

Senator_Cambrist

Date: Monday, 01 Oct 2012, 8:55 PM | Message # 6

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In a conversation with Senator Lekpin, I advocated a tax incentive for the dismantling of so-called "Separatist" vessels—a term in need of a definition here, incidentally—but a 15% reduction (even a 10% reduction) is far too generous, assuming that what's referred to is a reduction in the total amount of tax a planet owes to the Empire. It would be grotesque for defense spending on a planet to be as high as 15% of its GPP, yet we're reducing a tax by 15% for what is essentially a defense matter?

A bit of perspective is needed here, I feel. Brentaal operates a Munificent-class frigate for use as target practice in fleet exercises. If it were to retire this vessel according to this law, the resulting 15% reduction in Brentaal's tax would be enough money to purchase a hundred or more Munificent-class frigates. The benefit here is vastly disproportionate to the cost, especially on a world such as Metellos, with its population of 900 billion, where a 15% reduction in tax would represent a truly enormous loss of tax revenue for the Empire.

Now, suppose the incentive was for a tax rebate equivalent to 15% of the planet's defense spending for the previous year, this would be more reasonable. Or, more simply, a tax rebate equivalent to the value of the ships being dismantled. If the dismantling occurred at an Imperial yard, such as the Kemix Yard, the accounting would be simple. Why Druckenwell or Lorrd Engineering are included in this bill, I can't fathom. For one thing, it's prejudicial to other private shipwrights to include some in this bill but not others. Moreover, Druckenwell isn't suitable as a former manufacturer of Separatist vessels and Lorrd Engineering is located in a sector that's far too prone to war.

Roman_Lekpin

Date: Monday, 01 Oct 2012, 9:46 PM | Message # 7

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Senators, you'll find a number of alterations have been made.

Governor Tu'Rot, this is not mandatory at all.

As for defining Separatist vessels, I call upon the expertise of Senator Bernard Oriel of the Defense Committee to provide a definition.

Roman Lekpin
Representative, Lorrd (11 BBY-10 BBY) (9 BBY-Present)
Chosen of House Garth

Senator_Ordan

Date: Tuesday, 02 Oct 2012, 3:57 AM | Message # 8

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Quote (LomenRyuun)

that old horn

as you so demeaningly refer to your world's active participation in the Separatist Rebellion. Let us all remember Gentlemen, Druckenwell was not coerced into revolt, but an enthusiastic participant in the plot to bring down all we hold dear. Sure Senator Ryuun wasn't, but this is hardly the sins of one generation being visited on another, the men and women who supported this revolt are undoubtedly still mostly of working age - and the profit of contracts the Empire gives turns up all over society, not just in the direct industries (as Senator Ryuun so deceitfully implies in his statement.

Why does your world specifically (and these other three) merit being given a contract which the larger shipyards cannot bid on. You present this as trying "help" them, but if they wish to take on work it is an edict of the free market that they should be able to apply for it not that the work should be given to the former producers of these vessels.

Gentlemen, not only is this egregious and wanton attempt at profiteering by an ex-Sep world's Senator, this is an attack on freedom of the Markets.

15% of all taxation also, incidentally has the potential to cause a significant hole in the budget. Alsakan owns several target hologram projecting ships it procured in the Clone Wars from the Seps. It's exemption would be the equivalent to 150,000,000,000 peoples taxes (roughly), that's almost 16 times the population of Druckenwell's taxes in a year just as their exemption. I realize the exemption has been brought down from the ridiculous level initially stated, but the sheer stupidity of its initial inclusion bears mention another time.

With a sum so massive they could have produced a War Fleet capable of conquering some Sectors. Why is this a sensible use of the Emperors taxes? Also, define the value of a scrapped ship? Most are almost worthless, and in some cases are a bigger liability than they are worth anything.

Also you implied Kemix Yard's initial suitability, now you want to sponsor it to become suitable?

Make up your mind Senator Lekpin, why the corrupt ring fencing of the Emperors funds for a small shipyard, how long since they bought you?

Do they get a tax rebate in addition to the value of any valuable material recovered? Or does the Empire get the material?

LomenRyuun

Date: Tuesday, 02 Oct 2012, 4:50 AM | Message # 9

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Senator Ordan, your continued questioning of the current patriotism and dedication of Druckenwell is getting rather tiring. As for deceitful statements? Hardly. I was citing a singular example in regards to Druckenwell Shipyards, not the entirety of Druckenwell or the galaxy as a whole. I'm sure that there are more than a handful of former Separatist supporters who now pay homage to the Empire. What matters is pushing forwards and not stepping back.

I might also mention that this is not my legislation, Senator Ordan, so perhaps your questions would be better directed at the Lorrdian delegate. I see he has altered his bill, after all, so that all shipyards might utilize this system.

Alyn_Stark

Date: Tuesday, 02 Oct 2012, 4:59 AM | Message # 10

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(( Brain fart. Delete. ))

Alyn Stark
Lord of Kinyov
Senior Captain, Retired, Republic Navy
Head of House Malos (former)
Licensed bounty hunter
Majority shareholder, Lorrd Engineering
Owner, Stark Defense Conglomerate
Civilian Medal of Honor recipient
Representative, Lorrd (10 BBY-9 BBY)

Message edited by Alyn_Stark - Tuesday, 02 Oct 2012, 4:59 AM

Roman_Lekpin

Date: Tuesday, 02 Oct 2012, 5:00 AM | Message # 11

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Senator Ryuun is correct, Senator Ordan. The rewording was undertaken to ensure that all shipyards would be able to be included as viable options for dismantling of Separatist vessels. Senator Ryuun also had no say in which shipyards I originally proposed, so to call this an attack of any sort upon the market and to further lay such blame at his feet is a gross misstatement, Senator Ordan. I would have thought better of you. If anything, the blame for attempting to ease the access of the Outer Rim to dismantle their weapons of war in this regard lies at my feet, though it was no attempt to cheat the market.

Furthermore, if you would have read the modified legislature, you would see the that the plan calling for 15% tax cuts was dropped far before your statement. As for the value of a scrapped ship, it is dependent on the parts involves, opportunities of resale and the overall market value of the parts. Such things fluctuate and I cannot rightly say at this particular exact moment the given value of any specific ship. I daresay one of the senators more knowledgeable about vessels than I would be better suited to place such a price tag.

As for the Kemix Yard, while I originally believed them to be a viable option, I was informed recently that they would need certain renovations to be undertaken. As for being bought? You insult me, Senator Ordan. I've never questioned you, though I've often wanted to. I have also spoken with other senators and the consensus was that the Empire should have its own dedicated facility for dismantling ships, both for its own purposes and so that there exists a government alternative for planets who want the Empire to dismantle their Separatist ships for them.

And does who exactly get a tax rebate for valuable material? You were a tad unclear.

Roman Lekpin
Representative, Lorrd (11 BBY-10 BBY) (9 BBY-Present)
Chosen of House Garth

Senator_Ordan

Date: Tuesday, 02 Oct 2012, 10:19 AM | Message # 12

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Why Kemix Yard? Explain it to me, set it out for the Senate in black and white. What makes Kemix Yard so special that it deserves as a gift to be given 25,000,000 of the Emperor's Credits?

As for a rebate, I meant.

A ship is brought in for scrap. Say it generates 100 tons of Scrap Durasteel which covers the cost of scrappage and generates a profit of say, ten thousand credits. Does the Imperial world get the ten thousand credits in addition to the rebate of the value of the vessel? Also, how is the value of the vessel calculated? Original price or current value, if current value who assesses it?

Bernard_Oriel

Date: Tuesday, 02 Oct 2012, 10:26 AM | Message # 13

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The Defense Committee expresses it's favourable disposition toward this legislation.

However, this is pending the reasonable accomodation of concerns as laid out by the floor of the Senate.

Added (02 Oct 2012, 10:26 AM)
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Although, Senator Lekpin, I regret that I cannot define Separatist vessels for your Act unless you wish to collaborate on the act itself (which would require a meeting between us). What do you -want- Separatist vessels to mean in the context of your act? That's the question to be asked here.

Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate