|
The Tionese Extraordinary Representation Act
| |
| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Monday, 18 Feb 2013, 9:25 PM | Message # 31 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| I second Senator Bertuman's motion.
I appreciate you defining these terms, Senator Oriel, however I think I understood your meaning to begin with and I still don't agree with you for the reasons I've already expressed. These reasons are numerous, and they are good. Though I do agree with you that the status quo would be better served by the withdrawal of this measure.
|
| |
| |
| Jason_Bertuman | Date: Tuesday, 19 Feb 2013, 3:27 AM | Message # 32 |
|
Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 46
Status: Offline
| While both of you seems determined that you wouldn't be able to work a deal out, what is to say a meeting would be moot? Both parties has yet to try sitting down and discuss a such thing. I urge both of you to try. If we were to drop everything, we would just continue the trend we have the past thousands of years concerning the Tionese and that is to do nothing. With the Senate's permission, I would like to invite both Senators to Christophsis and work a such issue out with me (or if you prefer to appoint someone else) as the mediator, as well as the high-ranking officials from the Tion Hegemony. I consider the Tion Hegemony a vital part of the Galactic Empire, and should be treated as such.
~Senator Bertuman of Christophsis
Message edited by Jason_Bertuman - Tuesday, 19 Feb 2013, 3:28 AM |
| |
| |
| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Thursday, 21 Feb 2013, 4:14 PM | Message # 33 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| I have made every possible attempt to make this act amenable to all parties; and have offered to accommodate reasonable amendments.
The problem is Senator Bertuman, I don't want time to be wasted. If there are any suggestions (and I should remind you that the majority of the votes so far have been supportive) that anyone has to make I am willing to accommodate them, but there seems little point in engaging in further debate or talks outside the Senate if the motion is simply never going to be acceptable to some Senators.
The only true disagreement seems to be between Senators who simply oppose the Act on principle (which is fine, but by the same token it's not worth pursuing debate with them to try and change their principles).
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
|
| |
| |
| Draken_Turot | Date: Thursday, 21 Feb 2013, 4:46 PM | Message # 34 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 258
Status: Offline
| HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Full of jokes, Senator Cambrist!!! Full of jokes!!!! Well, I've got jokes of my own, my good man!!! Acherin votes in favor of this act!!!!
|
| |
| |
| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Thursday, 21 Feb 2013, 10:24 PM | Message # 35 |
|
Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Why?
The Tion Hegemony contains the Abraxin system, the Argoon system, the Brigia system, and the Caluula, Clariv, Dellalt, Desev, Erediss, Folende, Kanaver, Kaon, Livien, Omman, Orion, Raxus, Risban, Rudrig, Saheelindeel, and Stalimur systems, and of course, the Tion system. Among its major trade arteries; the Perlemian Trade Route, the Tion Trade Route, the Desvran Trace, the Lesser Cronese Arc, the Giblim Route, the Pakuuni Drift, and the Rudrig-Gbu Way. The Tionese people settled these systems over 27,000 years ago, and the majority of them reside there today. The ancient House of Tion rules the Hegemony and the eponymous Tionese people.
Hector Cynum and his Auril Union are based out of the Auril Sector, a small sector that is not in the Tion Hegemony. Nor is it in the Tion Cluster, where the Tion Hegemony is located. Nor is it even in Greater Tionese space, where the Tion Cluster is located. The Tionese people have been isolationist for tens of thousands of years. Hector Cynum has waged war beyond his borders twice in the last year and is now dispatching military forces to the Iotran Expanse, half-way across the galaxy and nowhere near the Auril Sector nor any semblance of Tionese space.
Nonetheless, Hector Cynum tells Senator Oriel, who now repeats to us that he, Cynum, is quite a popular and influential fellow among the Tionese. The question becomes twofold; in what alternate universe is Hector Cynum at all representative of the Tionese people or Tionese space, and why on this or any earth should this man's opinion about anything—least of all his opinion of himself—matter to the Empire more than the sentiments of the Tion Hegemony, an enormous Outer Rim market, with its hundreds of worlds and millions of people?
The Empire has a good relationship with the Tion Hegemony. That is the status quo, and that is what I wish to preserve. I've long had professional respect for Senator Oriel, but in this instance he vexes me. I don't know what this minor despot, Hector Cynum, has said to the Senator of Vjun to so divorce him from reality. "Reasonable amendments" are of little consequence when the premise of the bill itself is not reasonable. This bill may be good for Hector Cynum, but it is bad for the Empire. A majority of the Commerce Committee opposes it, as do I.
I admire your attempt to broker a compromise on this, Senator Bertuman. But Senator Oriel evidently doesn't want to waste Hector Cynum's time—Cynum is, as far as I can tell, the only person who would be inconvenienced by putting the bill on hold. Thus I do think, Senator Bertuman, that making up your mind either for or against the measure would better advance this debate.
|
| |
| |
| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Thursday, 21 Feb 2013, 11:06 PM | Message # 36 |
|
Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| I don't want to waste the time better spent furthering the course of peace in the region by having an Imperial appointed special envoy.
Senator Cambrist, really. Your enthusiasm for the humdrum affairs of this outlying region surprises me. As I said, I don't seek to challenge your principled objection to the bill and so thus Senator Bertumen's proposal is redundant. Fundamentally redundant.
I realize we disagree Senator, and I wish to respectfully and amicably disagree. But I see no point in re-iterating the replies I've made to points you have already stated.
The term "Representative" is simply used colloquially and as I stated would have no formal legal standing or right to speak for the Tionese people, simply that the Representative would simply be an official within the Imperial Diplomatic Service who would attempt to measure and express the views of the Tionese in an informal capacity, being of their blood and likely to represent their interests fairly while having a degree of Impartiality due to working for the Empire itself. This simply gives the Tionese a minor advocate within the Imperial Diplomatic Bureaucracy.
I realize there is controversy over the candidate but until I see a viable alternative the candidate stands.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
|
| |
| |
| Senator_Cambrist | Date: Thursday, 21 Feb 2013, 11:25 PM | Message # 37 |
|
Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 761
Status: Offline
| Senator Oriel, I thank you for being gracious, though I was not. I was strident, and I apologize for that (if not for the substance of what I've said). You concede that this title is largely symbolic, yet when I questioned the symbolic message it sends to the Tionese people, you said no message is being sent. I disagree. I don't see how the Tionese people aren't to construe from this measure that the Empire is choosing to reward a fringe frigure in Tionese culture for being more militarist than the majority of his fellows.
The Tion Cluster in recent months has moved away from Mr. Cynum's brand of ethnic warfare and toward peace and prosperity. This is good, commercially, for the Empire. This region does not need more militarism, yet that is what we're projecting to the Tionese people if the Imperial Senate chooses Hector Cynum for this position when, come now, there are many more qualified individuals among the House of Tion.
|
| |
| |
| LomenRyuun | Date: Saturday, 23 Feb 2013, 10:37 AM | Message # 38 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| I've heard Senator Cambrist out and I've made my mind. I am against this measure.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
|
| |
| |
| Augusta_Aurelius | Date: Sunday, 10 Mar 2013, 11:47 PM | Message # 39 |
 Lieutenant colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 109
Status: Offline
| Mr. Cynum has contributed to the Imperial Treasury. So did my predecessor, former Senator Veritas, through his crafting of the system for sales of Clone Wars assets. Do we have laud such platitudes upon former Senator Veritas? No. Mr. Cynum was not the sole individual behind the current warmth between the Cronese and Tionese; nor is he in any way, shape, or form a leading representative of the Tionese. He is an extremist and a zealot; one who started a war with an Imperial world over the death of a relative. This is no champion of peace; this is no symbol to be uplifted.
Deralia has been the strongest and most strident ally of the Tion Hegemony. While the Hegemony has chosen non-involvement in the Imperial system of government, I can say, on behalf of the Hegemony, that it is outraged at this craven and belligerent move on the part of Senator Oriel.
Mr. Cynum represents the past of the Tionese and Cronese people; and it was not a crusade by Mr. Cynum that brought about the current warmth in Tionese-Cronese relations, but the removal of extremists and nationalists from power within the Cronese Mandate. Mr. Cynum has proved to be just that for expatriate Tionese, with his war with Lorrd. I absolutely hate having to speak as such against a man who was once considered a close ally, but Mr. Cynum has gone out of control. Frankly, these titles and position are beyond his experience, and even known schooling. I also find it highly inappropriate that Senator Oriel is handing out titles and benefits of the Vjuni aristocracy in Imperial legislation.
Mr. Cynum's track record since the removal of the Kuriyoshi-allied government in the Cronese Mandate has not supported the stated goals of this act and title. Furthermore, too much is simply here for me to see a justifiable reason to vote for this legislation, should the appointee be changed. Senator Cambrist presents the strongest argument against this legislation, aside from the fact that the Tion Hegemony, which I note has not conducted a single offensive operation in a decade, opposes this title and its appointee While I understand Senator Oriel's intention in this legislation, I feel it is misguided and uninformed. I would be more than happy, in the future, to work with Senator Oriel on similar legislation.
I vote against this legislation.
Augusta Aurelius
Queen Conosrt of Deralia
Chair of the Human Rights Monitoring and Crisis Resolution Sub-Committee of the Planetary Defense Committee
Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (30 BBY - 18 BBY, 10 BBY - Present)
|
| |
| |
| Avram_Kirkwood | Date: Sunday, 10 Mar 2013, 11:49 PM | Message # 40 |
 Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 77
Status: Offline
| While I am perhaps not as involved as Senator Aurelius, Senator Cambrist makes an argument I can agree to more than appointing a warhawk to a position intended to foster peace. I also vote against.
The Honorable Avram W. Kirkwood
Senator of the Cygnus Star Empire
General, Imperial Army (Ret.)
|
| |
| |
| Sate_Pestage | Date: Sunday, 10 Mar 2013, 11:58 PM | Message # 41 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| If there is nothing further, Senators, the measure is defeated with 43% in favor and 57% opposed.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
|
| |
| |
| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 11 Mar 2013, 3:16 PM | Message # 42 |
|
Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| As a matter of procedure, since the motion was left open until the eleventh hour when absentee Senators appeared; I'd like to request that voting remains open that I might withdraw the motion before it's close? Had I known the views of Senators Aurelia and Kirkwood were opposed, I would've quickly moved to withdraw the motion from the floor, but was not given the time to do so.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
|
| |
| |
| Sate_Pestage | Date: Monday, 11 Mar 2013, 3:51 PM | Message # 43 |
|
Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
Messages: 639
Status: Offline
| It's irregular, but in this case, so ordered. The bill is withdrawn.
Sate Pestage
Grand Vizier of the Empire
Assistant to Emperor Palpatine
Chair of the Imperial Senate
|
| |
| |
|
