Criminalizing Abortion
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Ilanah_Thanatos | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 3:03 PM | Message # 31 |
 Colonel general
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| I agree with Senator Star, a woman has the right to choose. But in the same breath I also agree with Governor Oswaldt and Senator Ordan, no one should have the right to kill. There are, thankfully, a slew of options for a woman in a situation where she finds herself to be pregnant and does not want to be, and all have been pointed out already. For now, Gentlemen and Senator Star, Chandrila will abstain from voting either way.
Ilanah R. Thanatos Senator of Chandrila
Message edited by Ilanah_Thanatos - Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 3:05 PM |
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Nasir | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 11:33 PM | Message # 32 |
 Sergeant
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| Pro-choice or Pro-life eh? Abregado-San Votes In favor.
Emir(Governor) Nasir Baqri of Abregado San
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Toben-Domon | Date: Wednesday, 19 Jan 2011, 4:37 AM | Message # 33 |
 Major general
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| Here is a thought which be interesting coming from a non-human: do as Sluis Van does. We have strict birthing guidelines and any potential parents must undergo extensive parenting classes to receive a birthing license. This has managed to keep Sluis Van prosperous and rather crime free. Statistically speaking, Sluis Van is among the top five worlds with the lowest crime rating.
Toben Domon Senator, Sluis Van
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Bernard_Oriel | Date: Wednesday, 19 Jan 2011, 10:33 AM | Message # 34 |
 Colonel general
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| Vjun expresses its support for the views of Governor Oswaldt on this issue and we hope that the situation involving the lamentable slaughter of babes will end forthwith.
Bernard Oriel Senator for the Planet of Vjun 1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation) Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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Janar_Cerra | Date: Wednesday, 19 Jan 2011, 4:47 PM | Message # 35 |
 Major general
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| Garos IV votes against this measure. It is the right of a woman to do what is in her and the unborn child’s best interests. I propose this bill be changed to the following: No abortions will be forced upon a woman by any outside force. Abortions in the last trimester of the pregnancy will be outlawed.
Ja'nar Cerra Queen of Garos IV Acting Senator to the Republic, Garos IV
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Senator_Ordan | Date: Wednesday, 19 Jan 2011, 5:00 PM | Message # 36 |
 Lieutenant general
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| I think two lines a little short for such a major reform, Senator Cerra. Do you not understand Senator Cerra, or have you not been listening? There is no need for any child to be terminated, ever. There exists the technology which allows an unwanted child to be taken from the mother and transplanted to an artificial uterus in order that is is able to fulfil its potential and grow to adulthood. How can you defend child murder when artificial uterus' make it completely unnecessary? A vested interest perhaps? I certainly would not put it past our most famously.. bacchant senator.
Senator Hubert Ordan __________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector Foreign Minister of Anaxes Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes Autocrat of Selgon Owner of Azure Durasteel Systems Admiral (Ret) Order of the Canted Circle
Message edited by Senator_Ordan - Wednesday, 19 Jan 2011, 5:08 PM |
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Sate_Pestage | Date: Wednesday, 19 Jan 2011, 5:08 PM | Message # 37 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Moderators
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| Order, Senator Ordan. Speculating as to whether a member of this Senate has or has not had an abortion is insensitive and inappropriate. The remark is stricken from the record. Do observe more parliamentary conduct, Senator.
Sate Pestage Grand Vizier of the Empire Assistant to Emperor Palpatine Chair of the Imperial Senate
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Dierna_Chakrei | Date: Thursday, 20 Jan 2011, 3:33 AM | Message # 38 |
Private
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| As it stands I will cast my vote with Senator Cerra and Senator Star. A woman's reproductive rights should not be taken away on a mere whim. As such I vote against this legislation.
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Crin_Star | Date: Thursday, 20 Jan 2011, 5:28 AM | Message # 39 |
Major general
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| Abortion itself is a moral issue, over that there is no debate. However, when I spoke of this not being a matter for morality or compassion that was because this is a matter of law. A question of whether or not it is or will be legal is not an issue for emotion or compassion but for one of fact. So in that spirit let us review some of the actual facts rather than simply making statements condemning a medical practice as murder. Firstly, I will point out, much to your chagrin Senator Ordan I am sure, that this bill would introduce a horrible economic policy for the empire. In which we are costing the Empire both in taxes and in fines. These losses, from both the forced closure of businesses and from the loss of skilled labor positions will have an immediate and noticeable effect on local and planetary economies resulting in potentially greater fiscal strain. You may try to say I am over blowing this but when you consider the average salaries of doctors, nurses and the others who commit to the running of facilities, suddenly loosing that inflow of tax credits would deal a blow to local economies and one that should not be supported. That does not even take into account prominent, accepted economic theory of the effect of abortions on crime rates, namely that the more available abortions are the less crime there will be. This is due to the fact that instead of forcing women to carry the fetus to term and then abandon a child into the care of the state, another economic problem and loss of revenue for governments, who then has to grow up without the direct attention of a single parent which tends to have a significant effect on the psyche of a child. As morbid as this is, we can not turn away from the facts that this theory puts forward, no matter how much you wish to Senator. The state can't replace a parent, senator, while on a emotional standpoint it is better to give the child a life but we live in a world where we can't govern solely through emotion but also through reason. While we should strive to improve the galaxy to be better this measure does not do that, instead it proposes allowing ourselves to step onto a slippery slope in the restriction of freedoms because a few find the behavior objectionable. Secondly, as much rhetoric as you wish to put onto this, as much as you wish to paint this as an evil that the galaxy should not tolerate the simple fact of the matter is that this is a medical procedure. Quite simply abortion is a procedure agreed upon by patient and physician to be taken only in the best interests of the patient and as such is a medical procedure as it fits the most standard definition of such. Also, what transpires between a patient and a doctor should be kept confidential and not brought out. A doctor and patient share a deep sense of trust as is necessary in the profession. Patients trust their doctors to not reveal medical conditions to others and to give them the best care possible, while doctors must trust their patients to be honest with their medical history, with their symptoms, they must trust the patients to be honest with them so that they can provide the best care possible. It is into this trust that you wish to jam a wedge in that doctors can't suggest the treatment which may be most suitable for the patient.
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Bernard_Oriel | Date: Thursday, 20 Jan 2011, 6:26 AM | Message # 40 |
 Colonel general
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| All I am seeing is you saying "women have the right to slaughter innocent children, unnecessarily, on a whim", you may dress it up how you like but abortion is not necessary in this day and age, we are not some primitive society, taking its first steps into space, we are a sophisticated galaxy spanning civilisation who should put this evil behind us. Perhaps in more primitive days, before the artificial uterus, there was a need for abortion, but there is not that need now. Senator Star. You are evading the point again. What need of Abortion is there when the artificial womb allows the child to gestate outside of the mother? An artificial womb allows a child to grow and then go on to be adopted elsewhere. Surely you are not suggesting that it is a womans right to abort a perfectly healthy baby when it could be grown in an artificial uterus? I don't think this bill will reduce anyones efficiency. It will result in there being more humans around, meaning more labour and more loyal subjects for his majesty. The federal government would not be directly implementing this bill, it would be left for local governments to implement in whatever manner they choose.
Bernard Oriel Senator for the Planet of Vjun 1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation) Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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Artemis_Vanden | Date: Friday, 21 Jan 2011, 11:16 AM | Message # 41 |
 Major general
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| The artificial womb is a wonderful and truly life-saving innovation, but it is also expensive, and not widely available. This is particularly true as you progress farther from the Core Worlds to regions where education, especially reproductive education, tends to be rather poor. Understandably, these regions tend to have proportionally higher rates of abortion, and a pressing need for the artificial womb as well as for adoption services. Naboo has long had programs to provide for both of these as best it can, but as good as these programs are they simply aren't enough—children throughout the Outer Rim are still born into misery, poverty, disease, etc., and as crass as it may sound, it is unfortunate not only for these children and parents but also for millions of other children and parents also in these dire circumstances, and the worlds that struggle to support them all. That is, it may be easy for Senators from economic powerhouses like Eriadu and Anaxes to ban abortion, or Vjun—a world with a small, but rather comfortable population—but having seen the conditions on the Outer Rim myself, and until these conditions improve (better education, better access to artificial wombs, adoption, etc.), I cannot bring myself to ban it. In much of the galaxy, it is simply the most humane option if one cares not only for a child's life but for the quality of a child's life. I vote against the bill, and I also agree with Senator Star's arguments and have nothing more to add to them.
Artemis Vanden Representative of the Naboo
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RonsardEntrente | Date: Friday, 21 Jan 2011, 12:20 PM | Message # 42 |
 Lieutenant
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| I applaud Governor Oswaldt's compassionate measure on behalf of all the innocent victims of convenience. Yes, Senators, abortion is a convenience and not a right of this Empire. Perhaps the rebels would be willing to abort their babies upon their medical ships, but upstanding citizens of the Empire should not desire such an obscene act. Commenor votes in full favor of this bill. However, I would like to go further and propose an addendum: any person or doctor caught in the act of performing an abortion after this bill has passed shall be convicted of a capital crime for murder.
Ronsard Entrente Senator of Commenor Ranking Member, Commerce Committee
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Artemis_Vanden | Date: Friday, 21 Jan 2011, 12:32 PM | Message # 43 |
 Major general
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| I am surprised to see the Senator from Commenor suddenly values life more than money. I had thought otherwise.
Artemis Vanden Representative of the Naboo
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Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Saturday, 22 Jan 2011, 5:20 PM | Message # 44 |
 Colonel general
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| It's not that I'm in support of abortion. I hate it, I don't think babies deserved to be killed. The thing is, I also believe in freedom. The people also should have a right to choose whether to remove the babies from the womb or not, much to my objection. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean they shouldn't have a right to do so. I vote against.
Tremaine Fowlkes Senator of Telos IV
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Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Monday, 24 Jan 2011, 11:37 AM | Message # 45 |
 Major general
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| Senator RYuun, Quote "There are cases in which abortion should be acceptable, such as if a human woman is raped by an alien" HOrrible. Just horrible. Yes abortions are necessary in this case and so is the death penalty for the alien. I think the language of the bill as it is would permit the abortion of a monstrosity in this case but I will include your amendment at once just to be clear. I've always been against interspecies fornication as you know and i'm glad Druckenwell agrees.. can I count on your vote senator? Senator Fowlkes, Quote "The thing is, I also believe in freedom" Senator what about the child's freedom? And the child's rights? As I said in the interspecies fornication debate: "Whose "right" is more important, Senator Fowlkes? Yours to have sex with some.. thing? Or a child's right to a normal life? To a chance of a normal life? If anything, you're standing against freedom here." And here your doing it again. YOu didnt answer what I said before either.. why not kill the person in front of you in line at the bureau of ships and services because that persons inconvenient to you? Do you have a "right" to do that? Anobis is right, there is no right to murder. Tell me Telos do you disagree with any of the "whereas"'s in my bill? I want to know. Senator Entrente, Quote "Yes, Senators, abortion is a convenience and not a right of this Empire." Thank you for this senator, and for your vote. Senator Vanden, Quote "until these conditions improve (better education, better access to artificial wombs, adoption, etc.), I cannot bring myself to ban it." Alternatives to abortion will never be widely available as long as abortion is widely abvailable instead. Its not a solution, its part of the problem.
Johannes Oswaldt Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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