Criminalizing Abortion
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Johannes_Oswaldt | Date: Monday, 17 Jan 2011, 10:21 PM | Message # 1 |
 Major general
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| Whereas, science has demonstrated that life commences at conception, and thus that abortion constitutes the murder of a potential person, and Whereas, murder is morally reprehensible under all circumstances, but is especially so as it pertains to a defenseless, potential person, and Whereas, laws exist prohibiting murder on the implicit premise that life, in and of itself, has inherent value, and Whereas, one cannot argue for "control of one's body" if one has become pregnant unintentionally, and without coercion, as, in this circumstance, one clearly does not have "control of one's body," now, Therefore, abortion at any stage of pregnancy shall be considered a crime comparable to murder, and those who partake in abortions or provide abortions shall be prosecuted and punished accordingly, and, furthermore, Whereas, one cannot argue that pregnancy can imperil the life of a mother, as contemporary science is able to prevent this in all cases, now, Therefore, there shall be no exception to this act "for the health of the mother," and, furthermore, Whereas, it is the policy of the Empire to promote human life, and to promote the superiority of human life relative to other forms of sentient life, and Whereas, other forms of sentient life reproduce by means different from humans, and often in undesirably large numbers, now, Therefore, the language of this act shall apply only to human abortions.
Johannes Oswaldt Senator and Governor of Eriadu
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Tremaine_Fowlkes | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 2:38 AM | Message # 2 |
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| So let me put this in words everyone can understand, you're wanting to brand abortions of human babies simply to promote Human High Culture? I agree that there isn't much morals in abortions, and I am against it. However, this kind of decisions should be up to the individuals that are experiencing pregnancy throughout the galaxy. Shouldn't they have the freedom to make that kind of decisions?
Tremaine Fowlkes Senator of Telos IV
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Crin_Star | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 3:40 AM | Message # 3 |
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| Against for the reasons that Senator Fowlkes outlined.
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Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 5:15 AM | Message # 4 |
 Lieutenant general
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| There is nothing like the beautiful smile on the lips of a newborn baby, as it takes its first steps into the world. Senator Fowlkes, Senator Star, let me start by saying that I am completely disgusted by your totally amoral argument. By your disgustingly relativist "philosophy" you would "allow choice".. it is obscene that you would allow a woman the choice to MURDER her baby. You are on a ridiculously slippery slope. Where does it stop? Who can a mother "slaughter" because she is too lazy to rear the child? If a woman is stupid enough to fail to use contraception, then she has to take the results. Do the crime, do the time. Noone should have the freedom to murder babies. *Ordan took a baby, wrapped in swaddling clothes from a nursemaid standing behind him on his platform. The small child giggled adoringly.* Look at this child.. barely months older than the children you wish to allow the murder of Senator Star.. look at her darling face. Now, Senator Star, this woman conceived this baby.. does that give her the right to dash its head against the console of this booth? or toss it into the floor of the chamber? No, no no. This is obscene. I vote in favour of this motion. I will not vote to murder beautiful human children.
Senator Hubert Ordan __________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector Foreign Minister of Anaxes Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes Autocrat of Selgon Owner of Azure Durasteel Systems Admiral (Ret) Order of the Canted Circle
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Crin_Star | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 5:20 AM | Message # 5 |
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| A woman, Senator Ordan, should be the first and final decision maker on any medical operation made on her body. This is not a matter of how cute a baby is or of the morality of abortion but rather an issue of a patient being able to make a medically sound decision. We should not be in the business, Senator Ordan, of coming between women and their doctors instead we should encourage the right of woman and health care professionals to come to the best decision for all involved.
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Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 5:26 AM | Message # 6 |
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| Miss Star, it is not just an operation upon herself, but upon a separate entity, another human child. This is absolutely an issue of the morality of abortion. If we are not to make policy decisions on the basis of moral absolutes then what should we make them on? Children are living beings, just as you or I are. At what point is the rubicon crossed? when are the bridges burned? At what point is it okay to kill a child, and at what stage is it not okay to kill that child Senator Star?
Senator Hubert Ordan __________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector Foreign Minister of Anaxes Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes Autocrat of Selgon Owner of Azure Durasteel Systems Admiral (Ret) Order of the Canted Circle
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Crin_Star | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 5:38 AM | Message # 7 |
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| "I would ask the chair to remove the 'evidence' from the record as it really has no baring on this issue. Senator Ordan, quite frankly, as any reputable medical professional will attest to these are not children but rather a fetus lacking many of the defining characteristics of a human until later in the pregnancy. Also, as you probably don't know, it is an operation on the mother's body in which this fetus is growing and developing classifying it as the woman's choice in whether or not to carry to term or not. As to your question, the most definable point is when it becomes a child. The most definable point at which we can measure, is when it is born and when it is breathing, moving, and living outside of the mother rather than inside. At that point it would be reprehensible to kill the child.
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Senator_Ordan | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 6:09 AM | Message # 8 |
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| But its fine for me to kill a baby before its born?
Senator Hubert Ordan __________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector Foreign Minister of Anaxes Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes Autocrat of Selgon Owner of Azure Durasteel Systems Admiral (Ret) Order of the Canted Circle
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Crin_Star | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 6:19 AM | Message # 9 |
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| Once again Senator, abortions do not kill babies as you would insinuate but instead remove fetuses from the mother. I would not be opposed to late-term abortions, such as those carried out in the third trimester, being banned but to outlaw all of them is too far. I know you may not like this argument, Senator, but it is one that has to be made. This measure will only cost valuable Imperial and planetary resources in both prison facilities for those receiving abortions to overloaded orphanages due to the increase of unwanted children being born.
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Verence_Terrawin | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 6:23 AM | Message # 10 |
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| I cannot in good faith vote for the slaughtering of baby humans. What have they done to deserve to be treated so ill by their creators? Embryonic life is life, and has as much of a right to life as any other kind. I stand with Senator Ordan on affirming a firm stance against human abortion, and in favour of allowing children to grow up, happy and healthy.
Verence Terrawin
Senator of Alsakan First Lord of the Foreign Office, Alsakan
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Fabio | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 6:57 AM | Message # 11 |
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| I'd be all for this if you added alien babies, but since you are a supreme racist... I'll just hold my vote as I think about it. Human babies shouldn't be aborted, I'll agree with you on that.
Fabio Riada. King of Anobis.
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Verence_Terrawin | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 10:20 AM | Message # 12 |
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| Let us forgive Senator Oswaldt for his views for a moment Senator Riada. If nothing else then this is a move in the right direction, when this legislation is passed for the majority species it is logical that legislation for other species may swiftly follow. Although I think we can all agree that a human childs life is uniquely valuable and cannot be allowed to be destroyed so callously as Senator Star and Fowlkes would allow. *he wiped a tear from his eye* In the name of humanity.. let these children live.. there are orphanages, foster parents, adoptive parents.. even if the mother does not wish to love her child others will Senators.. others will.. What about freedom of choice for the baby? The heart of a human baby starts beating 24 days after conception.. let us prevent these innocent young hearts being stopped.
Verence Terrawin
Senator of Alsakan First Lord of the Foreign Office, Alsakan
Message edited by Verence_Terrawin - Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 10:24 AM |
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Crin_Star | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 10:26 AM | Message # 13 |
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| The simple fact about this measure is that it is not feasible nor is it a moral issue to be forced upon women. Abortion is a medical procedure which in some instances is a viable and a reasonable option. Should a rape victim for instance be forced to bare the child of the man who raped her? Is it morally ethical to force a life of suffering on those born with incurable mental defects or genetic disorders and upon their parents who would be forced to care for a child? While I do grant you that abortion is a somewhat immoral practice we should not be in the business of forcing women to carry unwanted children who would either end up abandoned or abused. Instead of forcing women and society to accept these children, instead we should keep it legal and fund alternative measures, and the awareness of them, to lower the rate of abortion while continuing to strive to promote a woman's right to privacy and the right to make medically sound decisions with their physicians.
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Verence_Terrawin | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 10:34 AM | Message # 14 |
 Major general
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| Senator Star, A woman who is raped should give birth if a child is produced by that illicit union. No blame should attach to her for being raped, but you have to consider that by terminating the child she commits a worse crime than rape, she commits the murder of an innocent child who cannot make an informed choice on the matter. As for medical matters, so far as I am aware gene therapy and so on can prevent children having any defects, and if the mother has one which makes childbirth dangerous then there are thousands of other devices. Bear in mind this motion pertains only to abortion. The woman in question would be free to have the child removed from her and grown in a synthetic womb. Your raped woman, or your mentally or physically ill person could have the child placed in a growth cylinder and then adopted if she so chose, but she MUST NOT have the right to kill that baby. This is a motion preventing the murder of children, not prohibiting their removal from the body and growth elsewhere.
Verence Terrawin
Senator of Alsakan First Lord of the Foreign Office, Alsakan
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Crin_Star | Date: Tuesday, 18 Jan 2011, 10:47 AM | Message # 15 |
Major general
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| Senator Terrawin, A woman's right to choose is a sacred privilege, as is the right of doctor/patient confidentiality. These are rights to privacy and to decide their own fate and to self determine their own lives. We should not force a choice on all when only a few find the behavior objectionable enough to try and put the force of law behind it. We are here to do as much good for our people as we can, senator, not to make biased laws that effect only one gender. Instead of a woman's right to choose, let us outlaw circumcision, or how about cosmetic surgeries to those not effected by disaster, or perhaps we should ban all gender realignment surgeries. Why don't we do that instead? Because it simply comes between a doctor and their patients and would likely have many adverse effects than intended as this one would.
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