Repeal of the Deralian Chastisement Act

Augusta_Aurelius

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 1:15 AM | Message # 1

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Repeal of the Deralian Chastisement Act
Written and Proposed by Senator Augusta Aurelius of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector

The Deralian Chastisement Act, written and proposed by Senator Bernard Oriel of Vjun, while passed by this body, contains several issues many of which are damaging to the Empire as a whole. The following is proposed to repeal the entirety of this act.

Section I
"Deralia is to be inspected to assure its military complies with all current guidelines right away, and then every 6 months for three years."

The necessity of this provision is questionable, and has not been proven by the previous legislation. Deralia has always been in compliance with the guidelines that have been established, and has complied with any regulation set forth. It is arbitrary and petty to impose unreasonable standards upon Deralia, or any other world, especially those with proven records.

Section II
"Deralia is prohibited from purchasing or building any type of warships without complete approval from the Defense Committee."

There have been no construction or purchase violations on the part of Deralia, in regards to its military procurement, therefore the relevancy and necessity of this provision is questionable at best

Section III
"Deralia is to (within 48 hours of the passage of this Act) pay Dantooine 1,300,000 credits (From the pocket of King Deralius) plus one DP20 gunship and two squadrons of fighters from the complement of it's Venator-class."

While reparation can be considered as a proper "punishment" in the occurrence of an illegal or unnecessary military operation, those which Deralia prosecuted were not, and therefore not necessary. It has never, unless in the case of rebellion, been an act of the Senate to reappropriate or remove the military assets of a member world. The provision of reappropriation of a DP20 Frigate and two squadrons of fighters to the world of Dantooine is inappropriate and violates the rights of Deralia to arm itself. In addition, it is inappropriate, and dangerous, to do so to a world of high commerical value in a region of space where piracy is rampant and smuggling works to undermine the galactic economy. The reduction of Deralia's ability to defend its assets and territories is a reckless action, which under the circumstances can not be allowed.

This is a dangerous precedent to set. If Senator Oriel can mandate that Deralia is to have its assets taken away, who is he to do it to next? The Cronese Mandate? Ralltiir? Empress Teta? Brentaal? This not only violates several planetary rights, but it is an action that is sure to lead to yet another seperatist crisis, and yet more war.

Section IV
"Deralia is prohibited from taking part in unilateral military aggression for three years."

The actions of Deralia were condoned by the Ruling Council, therefore this provision should bear no legal weight and stricken. There are many unforeseen circumstances in which a world might need to defend itself or its people and it is wrong and inproper for this body to tell Deralia, or any other world that is a member of the Empire, to tell it in advance that it's not allowed to do so.

Section V
"Tammuz Sector Rangers, coordinating with the Imperial Security Bureau, are urged to investigate the rumors of Deralians kidnapping Dantooinian citizens."

There has been no evidence presented which suggests or even implies Deralian operatives being on the surface of Dantooine at the time of military operation, therefore it is the opinion that the time and effort of the Sector Rangers should not be wasted in pursuing an investigation for which there is no existent evidence.

Section VI
Should this legislation be passed and enacted after the enforcement of the original act's punishment, any and all actions shall be immediately reversed.

Augusta Aurelius
Queen Conosrt of Deralia
Chair of the Human Rights Monitoring and Crisis Resolution Sub-Committee of the Planetary Defense Committee

Senator of Deralia and the Tammuz Sector (30 BBY - 18 BBY, 10 BBY - Present)

Bernard_Oriel

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 3:23 AM | Message # 2

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Why has this only been proposed on the eve of enforcement?

I believe Deralia needs to be chastised for attacking Dantooine ad murdering its people. Dozens died because of an abortive special forces raid and there has been no justification of the attack given, no evidence prevented. The Tammuz Sector Moff stated he endorsed an investigation which found Deralia to have conducted a special forces raid on Dantooine - are you again conflicting with your Moff.

The Ruling Council stated it did not support the operation but merely did not object. I believe the Chair is probably tired of stating this.

I see no grounds to repeal at this stage, so I vote against.

Deralia attacked a neighbour, ishould pay its dues. I would support a fair repeal f some provisions in time f we see the world has been well chastised and learned from its mistakes. Denying them only makes matters worse an demonstrates why fining this act was needed originally.

Deralia is unrepentant and does need to be made to see its actions are wrong. Furthermore as this repeal has not been proposed until the last day of a thirty day limit we can see Deralia isn't that interested in repealing the act.

Added (15 Jan 2012, 3:23 AM)
---------------------------------------------
Senators,

I also caution you that Senator Deralius is scaremongering about a new separatist crisis - is she suggesting her world wants to secede?

Remember this is punishing Deralia for an attack and special forces raid without presenting any evidence, without presenting any justification and with no respect for Dantooine's rights. What dd Dantooine do to deserve your attack?

Why didn't you complain to the Sector Rangers or try and protest through the Imperial Justice system, Imperial Senate or ANY diplomacy.

The question is not over who will be sanctioned next - it is why will fall victim to Deralia's attacks? Why will fear the appearance of its special forces or star destroyer? I do not object to planetary rights to defend themselves or use military force within reason, however, it must be the final option of last recourse - Deralia needs to be told and learn it is not the first and only option, and until it realises that this must stand.

Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate

Senator_Ordan

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 7:17 AM | Message # 3

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I wonder how the good Moff Levi feels about this quote?

Quote (Queen_Deralius_III)

In addition, it is inappropriate, and dangerous, to do so to a world of high commerical value in a region of space where piracy is rampant and smuggling works to undermine the galactic economy.

Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________

Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle

Verence_Terrawin

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 7:17 AM | Message # 4

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I think it should be noted that it's clearly not true that you believe Deralia actually needs defending by it's fleet - where was it when this recent raid happened? Oh yes, attacking Dantooine or otherwise occupied - clearly planetary defense is not a priority. I pity the lives lost by this stupid blunder, and believe your husband is lucky not to be impeached for leaving Deralia unguarded while he sent his fleet off on gallivanting operations. The Public Investigation into the Celeste raid makes interesting reading.

So some critical questions:

1. What made the situation so urgent you could not have tried other courses of action (Imperial, Sector Rangers etc)?
2. Why did you make no attempt at reconciliation with the Dantooine Government before attacking?
3. What new evidence do you have to justify your actions? (you have so far presented none).
4. Do you believe with hindsight that military and special forces action was the best course to take?
5. Would Deralia be willing to pay compensation for the dead Dantooinians?
6. How do you feel about the Criticism of your Command Cadre?
7. Have you handed over the people to your Sector Moff as requested or is Deralia "above" Sector Governors?
8. Do you think that a planet (this is a hypothetical) which has been described as "cavalier" and "inept" by an official Imperial investigation be allowed to bear arms against other worlds without negotiating?

I'd much appreciate if you could produce numbered answers to demonstrate no questions quietly ignored.

I believe these are the ones we need answered before I vote either way. Otherwise I am inclined to think "Do the crime, do the time.". Military action is needed sometimes, but if it's going to be done without any consideration of the situation or diplomatic overtures I think it is wrong. It is doubly wrong when you (as Deralia did) kill dozens of locals for this war you had made no effort to stop.

Verence Terrawin

Senator of Alsakan
First Lord of the Foreign Office, Alsakan

Senator_Ordan

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 7:44 AM | Message # 5

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I should add Verence that despite me wanting to publicise Queen Deralius' continual rhetorical attacks on her own Sector (which I agree with) Anaxes has no strong views on this Act or Repealing it and so will abstain.

That said, we agree that the Outer Rim is generally a barbaric and dark place, devoid of significant prosperity and in many cases even hope, mostly composed of barren wastelands, scrubby fields or extremes such as lava or ice, populated with swarms of aliens and hicks - it makes me glad to be a Coreworlder.

The Prime Minister of Anaxes also wished me to express his amusement at the fact Deralia noted itself to be of "high commercial value".

Avadrie_volFyr

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 8:10 AM | Message # 6

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In light of Moff Levi's report on the situation, and the assumptions presented by Deralia in this legislation, Empress Teta must vote to keep the Deralian Chastisement Act in place.

This is not to say that my vote can't be persuaded to vote to repeal the chastisement - but under the current wording, I cannot in good conscience vote in favor of this bill.

Lady Avadrie volFyr
Senator of Empress Teta
Defense Committee Member

Ilanah_Thanatos

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 8:50 AM | Message # 7

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I wish that there could be some sort of compromise in this, Queen Deralius, but it seems to me that the act must be kept in place. Derailia has been entirely too quiet on the matter and what has been said or not said has been few and far between. Unless the answers to the already posed questions are not answered satisfactorily, I must vote against this as well.

Ilanah R. Thanatos
Senator of Chandrila

Senator_Ordan

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 2:12 PM | Message # 8

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Maybe she was out with Senator Cerra.

Exar_Ray

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 6:51 PM | Message # 9

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Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is that Deralian did indeed sent a warship and other military resources to Dantooine. While the official headline of the Deralian government is that they showed in friendly terms to simply attack the 'terrorist' group apparently operating on Dantooine, it does not excuse the recording of the naval officer at the time claiming Dantooine to be one of the Deralian Empire, and pretty much attempting to void my legal and legitimate power as Khoonda Administrator as well as Senator of Dantooine, I do not take lightly at all. I vote against this.

Eli_Fitzgerald

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 9:10 PM | Message # 10

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No one opposed Deralia's adventure at Dantooine more than me. Deralia still hasn't explained itself or come clean about its special operations on Dantooine, and it deserves to be punished for what it did. But I'm not convinced the Chastisement Act is the correct thing to do. Just because I don't approve of what Deralia did doesn't mean I can ignore its arguments; that no planet should have its ships taken from it or told it can't use them. This is a principle I've defended in the past, and I have to defend it here too.

There are ways to punish Deralia without taking its ships from it or telling it not to use them even when it might need to. I agree with the Senator of Deralia on this. The Chastisement Act sets a bad precedent—tyranny of the majority, essentially—and I feel it should be repealed. We all agree Deralia's conduct was unacceptable, but the Chastisement Act is also unacceptable and I don't think we need to side with one or the other.

Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)

"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."

Augusta_Aurelius

Date: Sunday, 15 Jan 2012, 10:29 PM | Message # 11

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Senator Terrawin, the report in question does make for interesting reading. Especially considering no attempts at records access were made, which makes one wonder how any data fell into the hands of the investigator, and that Deralia was no party to the investigation in any way, including lack of any interviews or questioning, and as I just said, data inquiry. It is also interesting that the intelligence organization of an Outer Rim sector appears to assume that a fleet merely sits around, collecting micrometeorite dents, until war breaks out; nevermind the possibility that the fleet is an active and essential component in security, customs, and interdiction duties throughout the star system is an aspect completely devoid of consideration in the report.

1. What made the situation so urgent you could not have tried other courses of action (Imperial, Sector Rangers etc)?
While serious in nature, Deralia did not want to bother or inconvenience the Imperial Military or Sector Rangers in the matter. As has been said before, Deralia can take care of itself therefore it was deemed appropriate to handle the situation itself. Worlds, throughout galactic history, have had an inalienable right to defense and the ability to act in a manner they so choose in regards to such. If a world is attacked by terrorists, it has the right to pursue them. Deralia invoked this right, and the Ruling Council condoned this action.

2. Why did you make no attempt at reconciliation with the Dantooine Government before attacking?
It is still not clear at this time whether or not the terrorist elements on Dantooine have infiltrated the government of Dantooine. At the time of suspension of intelligence operations in regards to the situation on Dantooine, our intelligence community was investigating the possibility of terrorists hiding within the Militia community of Dantooine and the possibility that, if true, they had operatives placed precisely throughout the government of Dantooine to ensure they were not discovered.

3. What new evidence do you have to justify your actions? (you have so far presented none).
No evidence has been presented to the Senate, because it was unnecessary. Evidence was present to the Ruling Council, evidence was presented to the government Dantooine. Deralia has no interest in further information sharing at this time, due to the sensitive nature of the information.

4. Do you believe with hindsight that military and special forces action was the best course to take?
Yet again, I refuse that special forces action was taken. This is a false claim, with no basis in fact. I am not aware of any such deployment, and as half of the reigning monarchy, I would be privileged to such information. As for military action, at the time, and considering the circumstances, yes I do. Now, with the pleasure of hindsight, I still do, but I believe that a coalition effort would have been preferable. Security on Dantooine is a goal that is righteous and noble, and all should want to ensure it, and its people independence from radicals that wish to plunge the galaxy and our glorious Empire into the in-fighting that has occurred.

5. Would Deralia be willing to pay compensation for the dead Dantooinians?
I am not aware of any dead citizens of Dantooine due to Deralia action, as no claim has been made of such by any party until now, and only by yourself; therefore, no.

6. How do you feel about the Criticism of your Command Cadre?
I am not aware of any public criticism, other than that which is contained in the report you reference in your remarks. All of that criticism is hypothetical at best, and conjectural at worst. Glaring errors in the promotion system of Deralia also exists within the report in question, leading further to its questionable accuracy. Yet again, I remind, that not a single person in relation to Deralia was ever interviewed or questioned for this report.

7. Have you handed over the people to your Sector Moff as requested or is Deralia "above" Sector Governors?
No, we have not. And no, we are not above Sector Governors. It is a matter of training viable, temporary replacements while the officers in question submit themselves to the arrest ordered, and subsequent trials. To do so otherwise, would be actual acts of incompetence, rather than assumed or implied acts made out or ignorance.

8. Do you think that a planet (this is a hypothetical) which has been described as "cavalier" and "inept" by an official Imperial investigation be allowed to bear arms against other worlds without negotiating?
Yes. Yet again, the worlds of the Empire have rights. Rights which have not been removed. I have not, can not, and will not, violate or stand against constitutional rights which have been guaranteed for millennia.

Senator Ordan, considering Deralia is the only advanced world in the Sector, with all others being primitive, sparsely populated, or in the case of Tammuz-an, recently unified no more than five years ago, it is a simply matter of economic fact that Deralia has the strongest economic, commercial, and financial value in our sector, and when considered by nearby neighbors, only surpassed by Rothana.

Senator Thanatos, I question your assessment of the situation. Deralia has been far from quiet, unless you refer to the proposal of the legislation which this act is attempting to repeal during a period of time in which Deralia and the Tammuz Sector went unrepresented in the Senate. Perhaps you refer to the second attempt at further sanctions on Deralia, which fell apart once Deralia was represented and objected.

Senator Ray, yet again, Dantooine was declared a protectorate of the Kingdom of Deralia, no more. I apologize if it seemed otherwise, however I am going to say that"pretty much" doing something is not an arguement that would hold up in court, and should not hold up in the Senate. I can "pretty much" do whatever I want as a monarch. The reality is, I can not, and do not, because laws forbid me from doing so, as do my morals. My morals also forbid me from making false claims and dramatizing events that have occurred. No, Senator Ray, Deralia did not attempt to void your legal and legitimate claim to rule Dantooine through being the Khoonda Administrator.

Delegates of the Senate, are we not concerned with the precedent this sets? Are we not concerned by the effort to violate our rights as sovereign governments which still stand under the Imperial Charter? Don't take this concern from me, if you like, but I refer you all to the remarks of Senator Cambrist during the debate on the Second Deralian Chastisement Act, in opposition.

Representative_Galt

Date: Monday, 16 Jan 2012, 0:44 AM | Message # 12

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~ In the same pod as Queen Deralius, Representative Galt rose to his feet in protest with fists clenched, one of them clasping his ceremonial staff of office as if he was ready to use it as a weapon. As the Queen concluded her remarks, Galt leaned in beside her and said loudly enough to be heard on the microphone, "I ask to be recognized to defend the honor of Tammuz-an." ~

Vilish Galt
Representative of Tammuz-an and adviser to King Julpa

Augusta_Aurelius

Date: Monday, 16 Jan 2012, 2:17 AM | Message # 13

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~ She stepped to the side, enough for their further conversation to not be heard, and leaned into Representative Galt's ear. "Vilish, you know I mean no offense to your people or your world. I am forced, however, to talk in terms that these Coreworlders can understand. With that being said, do you still wish to speak?" she asked. Genuine concern for the apparent sleight to her counterpart was visible on her face. If anything the past few days had shown immediately that she held a genuine respect for her counterpart, unlike Senator Veritas, who unfortunately held Galt below him. ~

Verence_Terrawin

Date: Monday, 16 Jan 2012, 6:02 AM | Message # 14

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Unfortunately, we can all see that Miss Deralius is not remotely repentant for launching attacks upon the people of Dantooine. I would like to remind the chamber that in this atrocious and unwarranted attack Deralia never made the slightest effort to recompense the people of Dantooine, or apologize.

This is why I believe Deralia genuinely needs chastisement. It attacked another Outer Rim World because it didn't want to "bother" with mediation or the due process of law. It did not think it appropriate to attempt any form of diplomatic contact.

And I think this is relevant:

Quote (Queen_Deralius_III)

Dantooine was declared a protectorate of the Kingdom of Deralia

You can clearly see there that despite the words of Senator Veritas, Deralia did intend to impose its rule on Dantooine, forcing a world to be your "protectorate" against the will of their people and government is called "an invasion".

Do you not see that an invasion (lets not quibble with words- that's what "making a protectorate" means) without diplomacy and mediation is wrong?

Do you not see that violence needs to be the final option?

Governments do have the regrettable right to launch wars against eachother: However, you are not being punished for using your rights, merely for abusing them, in these circumstances it is only equitable that you are punished for doing so in a manner which killed civilians and violated the rights of another Government for no reason.

As we have seen no new arguments, no apology and no payment of the fines required by law, I vote Against this act, and urge all freedom loving people to do the same.

Are you next on Deralia's hit list?

Verence Terrawin

Senator of Alsakan
First Lord of the Foreign Office, Alsakan

Message edited by Verence_Terrawin - Monday, 16 Jan 2012, 6:03 AM

Bernard_Oriel

Date: Monday, 16 Jan 2012, 9:43 AM | Message # 15

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As Senator Terrawin says, you do the crime, you do the time. Your world attacked another world without even attempting diplomacy or resolution. It did not attempt peaceful methods but sought to overthrow a legitimate Government and make Dantooine a puppet state. You give all those who believe in the rights of worlds to conduct military operations a bad name, and interventionism a bad name. I believe military action is sometimes needed, most Senators here do - but we would all agree it should not be the first recourse, and because Deralia violently attacked another world and murdered it's people without provocation - that is why it ought to be punished with this (very minor) punishment so it learns the error of it's ways. If you give an inch, Deralia will take a mile.

Quote (Queen_Deralius_III)

3. What new evidence do you have to justify your actions? (you have so far presented none).
No evidence has been presented to the Senate

Says everything about Deralia's position.

It attacked Dantooine with no evidence, it left it's own world undefended, it let it's people die so it could go and park a ship at Dantooine for 12 hours. This is an inept broken world, a failed world seeking to use it's military to gain prestige, and managed to only slaughter civilians and innocents on Dantooine and Deralia.

Also, let's not forget Gentlemen that the "evidence" given to the Ruling Council has been declassified, there is no evidence listed at all, this is another lie from Deralia, aiming to mislead the Senate in the manner of her predecessor, Senator Veritas. Assertion is not evidence, and Deralia has only asserted and has failed constantly to provide evidence to either us or the Ruling Council. All Deralia has done is assert - with no evidence., Deralia has never presented evidence to the ruling council and so must be seen to be misleading the Senate.

Here's a quote from Queen Deralius

Quote (Queen_Deralius_III)

No, Senator Ray, Deralia did not attempt to void your legal and legitimate claim to rule Dantooine through being the Khoonda Administrator.

Here's a quote from the original Deralian statement.

Quote (Titus_Veritas (to the Ruling Council, reading a Deralian Senate motion))

we are willing to remove the Khoonda Administration from power and temporarily make Dantooine a part of the Kingdom of Deralia

Queen Deralius, you were simply lying there. I say again, lying to the Chamber of the Imperial Senate.

How about another, this time about Special Operations, again from the Deralian Government request to attack Dantooine.

Quote (Titus_Veritas (to the Imperial Ruling Council, reading a Deralian Senate motion))

We will begin this campaign through special operations, in attempt to keep this effort quiet, and hope that it does not become too much of a distraction. Should this be unsuccessful, we will proceed with a campaign of rapid domination with the full might of the Deralian military.

Quote (Queen_Deralius_III)

Yet again, I refuse that special forces action was taken. This is a false claim, with no basis in fact. I am not aware of any such deployment, and as half of the reigning monarchy, I would be privileged to such information.

Another wanton and brazen lie Gentlemen, wanton and brazen lying in the Chamber of the Senate! I call on the Chair to call this woman to order, lest her black bile corrupt us all like foul pitch.

Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate

Message edited by Bernard_Oriel - Monday, 16 Jan 2012, 10:03 AM