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Vessel Classification Bill
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Saturday, 01 Oct 2011, 10:03 AM | Message # 46 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| Senator Youngblood, you represent a world which is a fourth or fifth rate power in the Empire, this Act does not need or want the votes of such worlds. You vote against it because you are poor and lack the resources and skills that the big players have at the table. Do not expect us to care and want to adjust the game to reward lazy poor worlds.
Senator Hubert Ordan
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Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Eli_Fitzgerald | Date: Saturday, 01 Oct 2011, 10:36 PM | Message # 47 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 355
Status: Offline
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Quote (LordZarcaine) 'I do though have a question for Senator Fitzgerald, that is due to your stating that we need self-regulation, and voluntary treaties between worlds. I ask this of you, would pro-Imperial worlds regulate themselves to have lesser fleets'?
Quote (Artemis_Vanden) '... does anyone expect from Senator Ordan's words today that his planet, Anaxes, will "self-regulate" its fleet?'
Yes, definitely. I anticipated this argument and answered it elsewhere, but I will again. Planets that refuse to sign any reasonable treaties with their neighbors on the regulation of capital ships will undoubtedly find themselves increasingly marginalized as planets that do sign can A.) provide for each other's defense and thus wield greater strength in numbers, and B.) enjoy economic and trade incentives that those planets that refuse to sign will not be eligible for. Don't underestimate people power, Senators―together, the people can accomplish what Empires can or should not.
I remain against the bill. We need a new approach, not more of the same.
Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)
"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."
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| LordZarcaine | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 1:15 AM | Message # 48 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 192
Status: Offline
| Senator Fitzgerald, I must commend you for your views, I truly do also share some of the same. I dream of a time in which the worlds of the Empire will not need fleets to protect themselves, I dream of a time when all worlds will be able to aid each other and see to each others defenses, I dream of when each world can share such trade and economic incentives and trades between each other. I dream of all worlds in the Empire being at peace and a single strong force. That is the problem though Senator, It's a dream, one which will take many years to see happen, and one that will have its own problems along the road. As it is now, if we were to let go of our forces, disarm and push our warships off to the side, we would be inviting attacks from all sides.
Ralltiir as I understand it is a peaceful world, that is because you have the convenience of being peaceful, you have that opportunity. The Cronese Mandate doesn't have such a convenience, where we can just decommission our warships. Without them, we would be defenseless, our planets would burn and we would never have peace in the Mandate. Right now the Mandate fleet is the only thing that keeps peace in our space. The citizens of the Mandate can sleep at night because they know that the vessels of the Mandate fleet are there to defend them. Yes, it is true that recently the Mandate was attacked as I informed others due to my lack in a quick response to the concerns of the other Senators on this bill. People have died Senator Fitzgerald, and I mourn for those families, right now though it would be suicidal if I were to just decommission the Mandate fleet. The people of the Mandate must deal with loss, we've not seen such disregard for the lives of innocents since the Clone Wars, and it is terrible. The people of the Mandate though know that peace will be brought once more as the warships of the Mandate travel through the space of the Cronese Mandate and hunt down those vessels responsible. I do not have the convenience to sign away the defense duties of the Mandate fleet to look after other worlds as well, or enjoy economic and trade incentives for signing away the peace of mind that the Mandate fleet gives to the people.
There is a dream here gentlemen, one that sees a strong and unified Empire where all member worlds will be stronger and able to support each other like the columns of the greatest of memorials. Yet, that dream is one that is far off in the distance, and requires traveling through many dark points until we gain to the new dawn in which this Empire will lead us. Until there is that time Senator Fitzgerald that we may all rest easy at night with our doors unlocked, and our space free of warships, we must face the inescapable truth. Warships are needed to hold the peace, warships are needed to give the people that live in the Outer rim the peace of mind that lets them sleep at night. Until a day comes that I can announce to my people that Warships are no longer needed Senator Fitzgerald, is the day that I can finally rest in peace knowing that my people will still be safe, until then I must stand here and defend my people's right to peace, even if it means that right must be given at force of a warship.
As for you though Senator Slai-Fon, I do not doubt that Anobis isn't a hard working planet, from my few trips when I was younger I could see as much. Yet that does not give you any more right to assume that no other Senator in this Senate has not done their fair share of hard work. Let me ask you this Senator, have you ever had to learn how to walk again, how to move with out the aid of others, how to speak once more after losing your voice to the point that doctors would tell you that it would never come back again. I know what hard work is Senator Slai-Fon, and I know the pay off for it. Had I not worked hard I would not be standing here in this Senate, I would be sitting in a wheelchair. Had I not worked hard Senator Slai-Fon, I would not be speaking now with my own voice, I would be speaking with the assistance of a droid. I know what hard work is Senator, do not presume that no other Senator other than yourself knows what it is.
Lord Zarcaine Kuriyoshi
Lord of Chandaar
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 9:35 AM | Message # 49 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 353
Status: Offline
| Well seeing as how according to Senator Ordan that this act doesn't need the approval of smaller planets, I vote against. I would find it not proper to vote for a bill that would give several out of control Imperial Senators power with fleets.
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| Senator_Ordan | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 1:53 PM | Message # 50 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 633
Status: Offline
| Smaller planets be damned. You are opposing competition and the free market. Just because you cannot survive alone do not expect everyone else to want to live in a galaxy where Dantooine is equal in power to Eriadu.
Senator Hubert Ordan
__________________________
Senator of the Azure Sector
Foreign Minister of Anaxes
Captain-General of the Azure Interest Protection Squadron
Deputy Chairman of the Ethics Committee
Worshipful Master of the Most Loyal and Honourable Company of Blockadeers
Archtreasurer of the Vault of Pols Anaxes
Autocrat of Selgon
Owner of Azure Durasteel
Systems Admiral (Ret)
Order of the Canted Circle
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| Raynar_Tavira | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:09 PM | Message # 51 |
 Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 22
Status: Offline
| Gentlemen, there is no need for throwing insults around the Senate is there. It is clear that this Bill will do a great many things, although I do have a question for Senator Ray that has come to my mind while I watched the Senators argue their cases. It would seem that you are voting against this Bill just because Senator Ordan is for it, as well as you dont see that it doesn't do anything for Dantooine. Senator, is that Ethical for you to vote in such a way, that you would vote against any Bill that doesn't help Dantooine, or doesn't present anything for your world that you want. I believe that it's not too much for my asking of you to explain your stance against this Bill other than "Senator Ordan supports it." With that said though, allow me to give the Senate a history lesson.
Onderon is a proud world, many may say that it is a poor world, yet that is not the case. We are a rich people, with a rich history and a proud history. We are happy that we have been allowed to speak our voice in the Senate, to act in the galactic politics of the Empire. Onderon is a staunch supporter of vessels for defense, as well as those times in which they are needed to route out the enemy at home, and abroad in other systems that may be less defended, and supports more of a criminal rule, such as Tatooine does. This Bill would allow Onderon and the Onderonian people to sleep peacefully at night knowing that we will be allowed to hold the implements that would allow us to defend ourselves and strike out against those that would seek to take our freedom from us. It is with a proud heart that I say that Onderon supports and will vote for this Bill.
Galactic Senate
Onderon Representative
Member of the Council of Lords
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:18 PM | Message # 52 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 353
Status: Offline
| This coming from the Senator that admires Mandalorian rebels attacking the moon of Dxun.
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| Raynar_Tavira | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:22 PM | Message # 53 |
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Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 22
Status: Offline
| Senator Ray, at least I had the honesty to openly say that I admired an enemy that fought so valiantly against the overwhelming might of the Empire, an action that as we all have seen to be greatly misguided. I did not say I admired the Mandalorians themselves Senator, I stated that I admired their fighting spirit, such a spirit that I see in each and every Imperial Naval, and Military Officer and men that constantly lay their lives on the line, while Senators such as yourself stand here and sully their names by voting against Bill like this that would help lessen their loss of life by putting some of the burden of protecting the Empire on the worlds that the Empire protects and expects support from.
Galactic Senate
Onderon Representative
Member of the Council of Lords
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:25 PM | Message # 54 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 353
Status: Offline
| And if you had half a brain, Senator... you would notice that I always give reasons to why I am against. Since you like giving history lessons, I will present you with one. I am against this for the reasons that:
-Dantooine does not benefit from this, period, and neither do any other planets that cannot afford such ships.
So why would I vote in favor of a bill that appears to add more read tape then the Senator of Vjun's bill? You tell me.
Message edited by Exar_Ray - Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:26 PM |
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:30 PM | Message # 55 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| I must say that I agree with Senator Ray in this. Vjun, Telos IV, Anobis, simply cannot afford these ships which are legalised. Thus allowing more dangerous ships will not harm Senator Ordan's Anaxsi or Senator Zarcaine's Cronese, it will hurt the small outer rim worlds who don't have the money to splash around on massive weapons of war (for whatever purpose).
As Senator Ordan says and Senator Zarcaine has admitted, this act does hurt smaller worlds, it hurts rimward worlds. It is not our fault we are smaller than the big economies and we all try the best we can to defend ourselves, if this act passes it would be a slap in the face of the idea that members are equal and a slap in the face of every world which cannot afford to build the massive warships Anaxes and the Mandate apparently intend to build as we will then be at their mercy.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Raynar_Tavira | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:34 PM | Message # 56 |
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Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 22
Status: Offline
| Senator Ray, from the few files I've been able to read of past Bills, there is one thing that is always a constant. You vote against any Bill that does not specifically help your world of Dantooine, no matter what the Bill is for. For you to stand there and openly say it is enough proof to everyone in this Senate that you would only vote for a Bill if it specifically mentions Dantooine. What should we do Senator, write a Bill that will only affect Dantooine to make it better, instead of allowing yourself to actually take an sort of initiative and stand on your own two legs and produce for the Empire like every other world has.
Galactic Senate
Onderon Representative
Member of the Council of Lords
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| Mrash | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:37 PM | Message # 57 |
 Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 25
Status: Offline
| (nvm)
Mrash
Lord of Hsskhor
War Chief of Trandosha
Master of the Mytaranor Sector
Message edited by Mrash - Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:54 PM |
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:38 PM | Message # 58 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| Zarcaine's bill does not just hurt Dantooine, it also hurts your own world of Onderon, you also cannot afford the huge weapons this act endorses. Yet you support their proliferation, why is this Senator Tavira? It hurts the majority of member worlds of the Empire who can't or don't want to spend all their money on a massive fleet of vessels to insure themselves against the threat from other world's massive fleets of vessels. This act fails not only the members of the Empire, it fails its people too.
We deserve legislation which does not crush beneath its feet the rights and hopes of all the smaller worlds in the Galaxy as this act does. We deserve legislation which deals even handedly with all and does not punish the smaller economies for their size.
Oh, and surprise surprise.. the slavers support this bill. I think that puts the final nail in its coffin, if the Slavers of Trandosha support a bill, that attests to its morality better than a thousand speeches I could make.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
Message edited by Bernard_Oriel - Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:41 PM |
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| Exar_Ray | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 3:47 PM | Message # 59 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 353
Status: Offline
| I would like to mention that the Senator from Onderon clearly has not been reading far back enough or only is reading what he wants to read. Senator, I vote for not only what is good for Dantooine, but for the Empire as well. If Dantooine had the means for this, then I would vote in favor, but because it singles out members of the EMPIRE, I will not.
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| Raynar_Tavira | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 4:40 PM | Message # 60 |
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Sergeant
Group: Users
Messages: 22
Status: Offline
| Senator Oriel, do not confuse the fact that just because Iziz is the only city on Onderon that Onderon is as poor as that rock ball you call a world. Also, we have nothing to fear or worry about from other member worlds. So why would we have any other problem from supporting this Bill just because you assumed that Onderon is a poor world.
Galactic Senate
Onderon Representative
Member of the Council of Lords
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