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Vessel Classification Bill
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 4:47 PM | Message # 61 |
 Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
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| Onderon has a population of what, four million? It can under no circumstances afford to compete with Core worlds or the richer rimward ones when it comes to purchasing Capital vessels, or indeed with regards to prosecuting war. Even with the maximum number of your population under arms you could field perhaps 300,000 soldiers and crewmen, this is no great number when compared to the billions some worlds could field, and the taxes those billions pay which in turn allow them to fund their fleets.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| Eli_Fitzgerald | Date: Sunday, 02 Oct 2011, 10:46 PM | Message # 62 |
 Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 355
Status: Offline
| Senator Zarcaine, I've agreed with you on a lot of things but you should know you've fully misunderstood my position. Ralltiir is an uncompromising world in many respects; it has a strong fleet that it uses not just for self-defense but aggressively against pirates and slavers, too. I wrote a resolution that encourages other planets to do the same. I also wrote a bill that guarantees the right of Imperial planets to self-defense and I've mentioned the importance of self-defense and self-determination multiple times in this discussion. Never once have I argued for "disarmament" or for some peaceful and fantastic Empire. Nor will I, ever. I said just moments ago that political power belongs to the planets and the people, and I do not support handing it to the Empire as your bill does and you have admitted it does.
Frankly, the views you're attributing to me seem to be Representative Vanden's views, not mine. I don't agree with them at all. My whole argument about mutual assistance assumes that planets go to war with each other, always have, and always will (Ralltiir was prepared for a war of choice just weeks ago at Monor II). Self-regulation isn't a "dream"—many similar treaties already exist and more can exist tomorrow if the Senate opposes this bill and Senator Oriel's bill and lifts this crown of regulatory thorns from upon our brow.
Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)
"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 6:27 AM | Message # 63 |
 Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| Senators, senators, there is nothing that says even a less wealthy planet cannot pay over time, or that prices cannot be reduced. I am still firmly in favor of this bill.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Eli_Fitzgerald | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 7:40 AM | Message # 64 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 355
Status: Offline
| Why?
Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)
"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 10:23 AM | Message # 65 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| Representative Zarcaine has a vision, Senator Fitzgerald. I believe in that vision, as well as the fact that Zarcaine had promised me six planets in the Mandate.
I jest, I jest.
But I do believe he has the best interests in mind of all the people.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 11:07 AM | Message # 66 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| Surely a motion requiring a register of all vessels and individual Defense Council approval for each ship built is not "in the best interests of all the people"? Nor is legalising all vessels so that smaller worlds are able to be dominated by larger ones?
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 11:11 AM | Message # 67 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| I see no issue with a register to keep all governments honest, Senator Oriel. The individual Defense Council approval is a tad extensive in my book though, and I certainly disagree with such. However, I see no reason that a smaller world would be dominated by a larger; we simply sell cheaper or offer incentives to smaller worlds to keep them up-to-date as larger worlds. I can't speak for all larger worlds doing this, but Druckenwell surely will.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 11:15 AM | Message # 68 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| Take Dantooine or Vjun - it is just not plausible for us to ever be able to afford these larger ships, or even to crew them.
This is an act which gives unfair advantages to already powerful worlds by allowing them yet more powerful ships.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 11:18 AM | Message # 69 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| Senator, Sluis Van is a good trading partner of Druckenwell, as we are of Sluis Van. I see no reason why Sluis Van's expert shipwrights could not produce vessels for you that require less crew while achieving the same bang for your credit, so to speak, or even lessened prices. There is no need for Vjun, Dantooine, Anaxes or Druckenwell; indeed any planet, to own Star Destroyers or large vessels such as that; perhaps one as a flagship I can see at the most, but these days, a good group of cruisers and picket vessels will ward and defend more than aptly until the Imperial Starfleet can arrive and render aid.
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 11:29 AM | Message # 70 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| But Anaxes had stated it will use this act to produce larger vessels - surely this threatens us all?
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LomenRyuun | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 11:34 AM | Message # 71 |
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Lieutenant general
Group: Users
Messages: 696
Status: Offline
| Senator Ordan says this and he says that. Anaxes may be a valuable planet, Senator Oriel, but they still submit to the will of the Empire, and if they did attempt to threaten us all, well, meaning no offense to Senator Ordan, we have enough vessels between us all to bring them to task. It is a checks and balances system, Senator Oriel. If they produce a Star Destroyer for use of threatening, then Druckenwell shall produce a dozen Carrack cruisers, or even a larger ship. I daresay some of the designs the Sluissi have come up with seem very promising. Vjun is a purchaser of such vessels, are they not?
Lomen Ryuun
Senator, Doldur Sector
Senator, Druckenwell
Representative, Monor II (10 BBY - 9 BBY)
Representative, Geridard
Representative, Boranall
Representative, Therenor Prime
Vice-chairman, Defense Committee (Temporarily suspended)
Controlling Shareholder - Druckenwell Arms Corporation
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| Bernard_Oriel | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 11:43 AM | Message # 72 |
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Colonel general
Group: Users
Messages: 803
Status: Offline
| Vjun has expressed interest in some small patrol vessels from Sluis Van.
However, what you have just expounded "Druckenwell shall produce a dozen Carrack cruisers, or even a larger ship." is called an arms race, and is sure to lead to war and the detriment of everyone's economies.
Bernard Oriel
Senator for the Planet of Vjun
1st Earl Malreaux (Second Creation)
Vjun Delegation to the Imperial Senate
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| LordZarcaine | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 2:52 PM | Message # 73 |
 Colonel
Group: Users
Messages: 192
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| Senator Oriel, it would appear that you have an uncanny ability to take sentences and fragments from full paragraphs and take them out of context as well as twist them to serve your views. I believe I am quoting Senator Ryuun right when I say that the full line he spoke was Quote (LomenRyuun) Anaxes may be a valuable planet, Senator Oriel, but they still submit to the will of the Empire, and if they did attempt to threaten us all, well, meaning no offense to Senator Ordan, we have enough vessels between us all to bring them to task. It is a checks and balances system, Senator Oriel. If they produce a Star Destroyer for use of threatening, then Druckenwell shall produce a dozen Carrack cruisers, or even a larger ship.
You'll also note that nothing was stated or said in the Bill that would prevent smaller worlds from coming to some term of lay away or pay back policy with a shipyard or other vessel producer or sales lot.
Lord Zarcaine Kuriyoshi
Lord of Chandaar
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| Eli_Fitzgerald | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 8:11 PM | Message # 74 |
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Major general
Group: Users
Messages: 355
Status: Offline
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Quote (LomenRyuun) "... if they did attempt to threaten us all, well, meaning no offense to Senator Ordan, we have enough vessels between us all to bring them to task."
Quote (Eli_Fitzgerald) "Planets that refuse to sign any reasonable treaties with their neighbors on the regulation of capital ships will undoubtedly find themselves increasingly marginalized as planets that do sign can... provide for each other's defense and thus wield greater strength in numbers..."
Again, Senator Ryuun, why support this bill when you clearly agree with me? I still haven't heard a reason why you support this bill. How do you justify to the struggling shipwrights of Druckenwell the many regulations this bill imposes on them? Could it be the bill's complete absence of any regulations on planets and the advantage this would give Druckenwell over smaller worlds like, say, Monor II?
I would never accuse you of having ulterior motives.
But just because I'm not saying it doesn't mean it isn't what I think or isn't true. I just think the people you represent deserve an explanation of why you're voting in their name to impose these regulations on them.
Eli Fitzgerald
Senator of Ralltiir (10 BBY—Present)
"I was elected to do some flamethrowing in the Senate. To a light a fire under those Senators and make it hot for them."
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| Robert_North | Date: Monday, 03 Oct 2011, 10:53 PM | Message # 75 |
 Lieutenant
Group: Users
Messages: 50
Status: Offline
| I, and the people of Imperial Center, agree with Senator Ordan and the fine people of Anaxes. I vote In Favor.
The Honorable R.C.W. North
Senator of Imperial Center
Chairman of the Internal Activities Committee Mayor of the Galactic/Imperial City (22 BBY-18 BBY)
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